renamed::: help finding monastery???

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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333
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Re: renamed::: help finding monastery???

Post by 333 » Mon Aug 17, 2015 9:35 pm

I only answered hermitwins question.

I have heard descriptions from reliable sources, and I am only repeating this "here say" for the benefit of others. I haven't rejected wpn, if I reject the place I would say 'don't go'. I am only presenting a point of view that, in my opinion is reliable, and helpful.

It may be a biased opinion and totally dependent upon the observer without being a complete 100℅ perfectly accurate description of the monastery as a whole. Different people will have a different experience of the same place, which generates different opinions. Neither opinion can be said to be absolute truth. Therefore, I'm not rejecting wpn, I have only presented the opinions and experiences of the people I have spoken to. As I have never been, the information is to be taken with a grain of salt.

However, seeing as I have heard the negative opinions consistently from multiple sources, I believe there to be an underlying truth to it, and I think people deserve to be aware of the negative aspects of a momastery , especially in this community where many people aspire to become bhikkhus. Therefore I present the "here say" because I think it can be beneficial.

If someone is considering wpn for ordination while in a country outside Thailand, I would expect them to do thorough research into the positive feedback as well, as it certainly exists, and weigh the negatives with the positives. I am by no means a reliable source for understanding monastery conditions in Thailand, as I have never been. Therefore everything I say about it is to be taken with a grain of salt, evaluated intelligently, and weighed with other information/opinions. I only wish to help people on the same path I am.

I wish everybody well. :anjali:
To Avoid All Evil,
To Cultivate Only Good,
And To Purify One's Mind
This Is The Teaching Of All The Buddhas!
-Dhammapada 183

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Goofaholix
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Re: renamed::: help finding monastery???

Post by Goofaholix » Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:46 pm

333 wrote:I only answered hermitwins question....

I wish everybody well. :anjali:
It was a simple enough piece of advice, the disclaimer wasn't necessary.
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.” ― Ajahn Chah

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333
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Re: renamed::: help finding monastery???

Post by 333 » Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:30 pm

Seeing as many people view this posting, perhaps the 'disclaimer' will be beneficial.

BTW, I find the tone of your comment insulting. If you intended on giving me advice without receiving a response then why did you include a question? Are you suggesting I take your "simple advice" in silence? I have no right to further explain myself? If you dislike 'me', or what you perceive as me by comments made on an internet forum, I would suggest skipping over my posts instead of being confrontational. Thank you. :twothumbsup:
To Avoid All Evil,
To Cultivate Only Good,
And To Purify One's Mind
This Is The Teaching Of All The Buddhas!
-Dhammapada 183

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Goofaholix
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Re: renamed::: help finding monastery???

Post by Goofaholix » Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:48 am

333 wrote:BTW, I find the tone of your comment insulting. If you intended on giving me advice without receiving a response then why did you include a question? Are you suggesting I take your "simple advice" in silence? I have no right to further explain myself? If you dislike 'me', or what you perceive as me by comments made on an internet forum, I would suggest skipping over my posts instead of being confrontational. Thank you. :twothumbsup:
A simple "Yes it's hearsay but no I haven't entirely rejected WPN" would have sufficed.

I don't think it's constructive to assume that anyone who's responses you find disagreeable probably doesn't like you, most people talk about the topic at hand objectively.
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.” ― Ajahn Chah

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333
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Re: renamed::: help finding monastery???

Post by 333 » Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:58 am

OK. The topic at hand being this is a thread I created to find monasteries, which you have not contributed to at all, rather you come here to try to control the way I answer a comment. Please be of benefit to the OP, or others, when posting in this thread. Thank you.
:anjali: I wish you the best.
To Avoid All Evil,
To Cultivate Only Good,
And To Purify One's Mind
This Is The Teaching Of All The Buddhas!
-Dhammapada 183

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Rob1980
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Re: renamed::: help finding monastery???

Post by Rob1980 » Tue Sep 01, 2015 9:39 am

Best thing to do is to travel around and what the places are like yourself. Everyone has an opinion and I would not recommend just going to a monastery with the view to ordain there without looking at other places. Otherwise when things are not going well when you ordain at the monastery, you will start to fanastise about other monasteries that might be better. And then you will find yourself as a monk travelling from one monastery to another monastery trying to find the perfect place. Better to do it as layman and find the place that fits in with your aspiration and then stick to that place for at least 5 years or to be under an Upajjhaya for 5 years.

Good luck!

With metta

Rob :anjali:
Reviews of Meditation and Yoga retreats as well as Monasteries: https://www.reviewmyretreat.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"

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Re: renamed::: help finding monastery???

Post by samseva » Tue Sep 01, 2015 1:49 pm

Rob1980 wrote:Best thing to do is to travel around and what the places are like yourself. Everyone has an opinion and I would not recommend just going to a monastery with the view to ordain there without looking at other places. Otherwise when things are not going well when you ordain at the monastery, you will start to fanastise about other monasteries that might be better. And then you will find yourself as a monk travelling from one monastery to another monastery trying to find the perfect place. Better to do it as layman and find the place that fits in with your aspiration and then stick to that place for at least 5 years or to be under an Upajjhaya for 5 years.
I hadn't really thought of it that way. This is very true. Thank you.

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333
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Re: renamed::: help finding monastery???

Post by 333 » Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:21 am

Indeed, thank you rob! :anjali:
To Avoid All Evil,
To Cultivate Only Good,
And To Purify One's Mind
This Is The Teaching Of All The Buddhas!
-Dhammapada 183

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Mkoll
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Re: renamed::: help finding monastery???

Post by Mkoll » Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:14 pm

samseva wrote:
Rob1980 wrote:Best thing to do is to travel around and what the places are like yourself. Everyone has an opinion and I would not recommend just going to a monastery with the view to ordain there without looking at other places. Otherwise when things are not going well when you ordain at the monastery, you will start to fanastise about other monasteries that might be better. And then you will find yourself as a monk travelling from one monastery to another monastery trying to find the perfect place. Better to do it as layman and find the place that fits in with your aspiration and then stick to that place for at least 5 years or to be under an Upajjhaya for 5 years.
I hadn't really thought of it that way. This is very true. Thank you.
Good advice indeed!
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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Goofaholix
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Re: renamed::: help finding monastery???

Post by Goofaholix » Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:04 pm

Rob1980 wrote:Best thing to do is to travel around and what the places are like yourself. Everyone has an opinion and I would not recommend just going to a monastery with the view to ordain there without looking at other places. Otherwise when things are not going well when you ordain at the monastery, you will start to fanastise about other monasteries that might be better. And then you will find yourself as a monk travelling from one monastery to another monastery trying to find the perfect place. Better to do it as layman and find the place that fits in with your aspiration and then stick to that place for at least 5 years or to be under an Upajjhaya for 5 years.
This is good advice when considering any major life change or commitment. However in my experience after several months travelling around different monasteries looking for the right one to ordain in it's possible you'll end up returning home tired and disillusioned. Also after months of intensive meditation one can feel quite energised and the world out there doesn't seem so bad and one can feel more positive and capable of living a normal secular life.

So I think it might be better to choose a place and be willing to commit and surrender to the lifestyle and be willing to take the good with the bad, don't worry after 5 years one is free to go where you like and will have the opportunity to practice with other teachers and monasteries.

I think it's a matter of knowing ones mindset.
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.” ― Ajahn Chah

moment
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Ordination in Na Uyana Forest Monastery

Post by moment » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:08 pm

Hello.
Have anyone been lately contacting Na Uyana through email and get response?
I didn't and therefore started to wonder if my english or what was so bad?
Also here, sorry for my English.

moment
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Re: Ordination in Na Uyana Forest Monastery

Post by moment » Fri Sep 23, 2016 9:25 am

moment wrote:Hello.
Have anyone been lately contacting Na Uyana through email and get response?
I didn't and therefore started to wonder if my english or what was so bad?
Also here, sorry for my English.
Once they responded me in few hours. I don't have many attempts contacting them, but other times I got no responses, so I guess You need to remind from time to time.

By the way, "Most Ven. Nauyane Ariyadhamma Maha Thera‍ has passed away(2016-Sep-7)"

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Re: renamed::: help finding monastery???

Post by monkeycat » Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:22 am

333 wrote:I corresponded with a bhikkhu who stayed here for a little while, I will summarize what he said to me, as I don't have permission to quote him. :smile:

The road nearby is noisy, with lots of trucks. Loud music makes its way into the monastery, and on 3/7 nights on a particular week there was extremely loud music well past midnight. Farmers on all sides shoot shotguns regularly throughout the day. When this monk stayed there, there was 7 monks, 2 novices, 2 anagarikas, and 4 laymen. He described the feeling of gloom, emptiness. Apparently the abbot doesn't like to ordain many people, resulting in less monks and more work for the residing monks - something that caused many to leave. The monks are described as not being particularly happy, without enthusiasm. The anagarikas were described as very anxious, and tense.

This isn't the first description I have heard of the bad vibes at wpn, either. However, the abbot changes every 5 years and it may well be that with the next abbot comes a brighter day for wpn. :anjali:
I have visited WPN quite a few times under the current abbot

Yes from some kuti's you can hear the highway which is nearby but it is not particularly loud. Also yes, occasionally you can hear music from the village if there is an event but it is not something that happens everyday. Generally it is very quiet.

WPN is very strict and takes a very intense and serious approach. It seems to me that the focus is mostly on Vinaya, Sila, mindfulness in daily activities and learning how to be a monastic and how to be an attendant to the more senior monks. Almost all the teachings are on this. Very little is said about formal sitting meditation. I have not yet been to a monastery which so intensely studies the Vinaya. For some this is too much and they prefer a more relaxed environment. This is I think why the Anagarikas at WPN always seem to be quite anxious and tense. They have a lot of duties, I think more than the Novices and Monks and are adjusting to a difficult schedule compared to their previous lay life. The serious approach taken and hierarchical system can often develop a state of mind in some of the monks/novices/anagarikas which I don't think is helpful and is where many of the comments about it being a place where there is a lot of bossing around. Almost all the monks are monks who have less than 5 rains. Generally they finish their training at WPN and then go and do their own thing at other monestarys having learnt how to be independent.

Every few weeks there can be a period of days, or even weeks where a work project begins. This takes up a few hours of the day, or sometimes most of the day. Occasionally it seems like a project has been created just to keep people busy.

I have heard it said that for someone who does not have a well developed practise in lay life, WPN can be good for them. For those that do have a well developed practise then perhaps it can be a bit too much. I think this is correct. WPN is a very structured and intensive system of training a Westerner to be a Thai forest monk, one which they have developed over 30-40 years. Someone once said to me WPN is a sort of 'How to be a Thai forest monk for Dummies' - it starts right at beginner and assumes you do not know anything.

Probably the biggest positive about WPN is that for a westerner it has a very good sense of community like a family. Between the monks but also between the lay people from the villages and the monks. The villagers speak with pride about their monastery and monks and the standards they practise at.

On here you may see posts which put WPN in a negative light and recommend not to go there. I think when reading these it is important to take into account when it was written and when the person the visited. I have visited it during gloomy times but the monestary is always changing. A person may visit during a work project and then report back that 'All they do is work'. Currently I would say that the monastery is in a good state for those that need that kind of training. There is a senior WPN monk who is very well known who assists the abbot in training the monks. There are many people ordaining and a lot of monks and novices there. In another 2 years maybe it will be different. But I think it is important to go and see for yourself. I would recommend visiting for at least a month between November-February or May-July to get a good feel for what it is like.

Hope that is helpful

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Goofaholix
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Re: renamed::: help finding monastery???

Post by Goofaholix » Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:54 pm

monkeycat wrote: Hope that is helpful
Thanks for that very detailed description. I was at WPN in 96 and 99, it was mostly as you describe back in those days too.
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.” ― Ajahn Chah

Sroberto
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Re: Ordination in Na Uyana Forest Monastery

Post by Sroberto » Mon May 21, 2018 8:16 pm

samseva wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2015 3:05 am
333 wrote:Does anyone know of such a place conducive to this type of training? In Thailand or sri Lanka, or anywhere else. Except the west; I would like to leave this area. I only speak English as well. Thanks for any replies :twothumbsup:
There are probably many in Thailand. There is also Meetirigala Nissarana Vanaya in Sri Lanka, which is apparently a good monastery, but somewhat difficult to live there. Have you considered Australia, New Zealand or the UK?

I don't know if you like the Ajahn Chah monasteries, but maybe this could be useful (Ajahn Chah branch monasteries from around the world).
http://forestsangha.org/monasteries/

Another great resource is the World Buddhist Directory.
http://www.buddhanet.info/wbd/

Someone else who could help you out is Ven. Yuttadhammo Bhikkhu.
https://www.facebook.com/yuttadhammo
https://plus.google.com/+YuttadhammoBhikkhu/posts
http://yuttadhammo.sirimangalo.org (Contact form to the right)
Wby is it difficult to live there?

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