Paying off all debt in hopes of soon ordaining

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
DensoToke
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Paying off all debt in hopes of soon ordaining

Post by DensoToke » Mon May 12, 2014 4:15 pm

Hello, I have not been to this site in some time but I recently have been able to use the internet again and just thought I would inform you all of what I am currently doing. I dropped out of college a while ago because I honestly was only there to please my parents. All I have wanted for the longest time is to ordain, study, help, and use all that I can learn to help others who will w walk this path. My parents and I have since severed ties due to what they call a "ridiculous waste of a life." They are wealthy individuals, but they are greedy and money is all they care for. I am not upset or angered by their decisions, but I do wished they understood and respected mine. After dropping out I began to work a low wage job and was doing well at paying back my debts, but I am sad to say pity, self loathing, and drug use began to lead me down a terrible path. I left everything I had and became homeless living in a state park. But this led to my ability to get clean on my own and abandon that lifestyle which I vowed to never return to. This leads me to where I am today, a couple close to thirty years of age offered to take me in and has given me everything and then some. They have given me a tent to stay on their property, food, clothing, and most importantly true friendship and love that I have never seen or felt before. I have explained my life's journey to them and they were very accepting of my past and my willingness to never go back to it. I will admit though I have only been with them three weeks now, and I often have this feeling of guilt because I have taken so much from them that I feel I have not earned, and it's hard to express these feelings to them due to the amount of embarrassment I feel from it. I hoping to find work in this area soon so I can begin to repay their generosity, and begin working on my debt again. I don't mind working fast food just knowing the money I earn well go to them and be put to good use. At last check, I owe about 25,000 in student loans and another 5,000 in personal loans. I know 30,000 is quite a bit of money but I feel I can't abandon those contracts and ordain ...I just wouldn't feel right about it in my heart.
I'm sorry to ramble like this but I felt if anyone understood it would be you all. I ask that if you have any advice or comments please say them. Thank you to those who read this. And please keep me in mind so that my will will stay strong.

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DNS
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Re: Paying off all debt in hopes of soon ordaining

Post by DNS » Mon May 12, 2014 4:34 pm

You said your parents are wealthy. They didn't pay for your college education? Most parents (not all though) will pay for their kids' education if they can afford it.

DensoToke
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Re: Paying off all debt in hopes of soon ordaining

Post by DensoToke » Mon May 12, 2014 4:42 pm

They are and believe me I asked. It always came down to we'll think about it or "maybe next semester, your loans already cover this one" that was my favorite one. As I said they are greedy and their money is their money.

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Sokehi
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Re: Paying off all debt in hopes of soon ordaining

Post by Sokehi » Mon May 12, 2014 7:40 pm

Just don't let the wish to ordain (and that you can't yet with that debt) become your suffering. Practice were you are at. Practice the 5 precepts, diligently. Practice doesn't start at the monastery gates and your "practice material" is right in front of you yet I guess. But I hope your aspiration will be fulfilled one day.

Stay strong :anjali:
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

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James the Giant
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Re: Paying off all debt in hopes of soon ordaining

Post by James the Giant » Mon May 12, 2014 8:27 pm

Hi Denso, it's cool to hear you are intending to ordain, best wishes to you!
Have you sat down and worked out a savings plan? For example, written down how much you earn per week, minus food, other outgoings, etc, and what's left is debt repayment. To be honest, fast food (or any unskilled job) does not pay a lot. You will simply not be able to pay off a $30,000 loan within this lifetime, on fast food wages.
I think it would be quicker to pay off your debt by going back to college, getting your degree, and getting a much higher paying job than fast food. Then you can ordain much faster, within 3 - 4 years perhaps, instead of several decades of low wages.
Plus your parents will be happy, as they will see you back at college and think you are doing what they want. (but secretly you will be doing what YOU want, what's best for you.)
Good luck.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11

DensoToke
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Re: Paying off all debt in hopes of soon ordaining

Post by DensoToke » Mon May 12, 2014 8:43 pm

Thank you James for your thoughts. And no I have not set down and actually worked out the details. I understand fast food isn't the best out even good money, but it's a start. The majority of my pay well be going to the couple helping me. I hate taking from them and giving nothing in return. And the rest will go toward my debt. I don't really see returning to college as being a way to reach my goals. I would have to take out even more loans to cover the tuition and fees, which would only drive me further into debt. Plus I would change my major to something I wanted instead of business, which was my parents idea. But surely something a bit better paying will come along in time. I hope.

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Mkoll
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Re: Paying off all debt in hopes of soon ordaining

Post by Mkoll » Mon May 12, 2014 8:50 pm

DensoToke,

I agree with James' financial assessment. Unskilled work pays next to nothing. It's better to spend the time now learning a skill in an internship, community college, trade school, etc. Or just go back to university. You'll pay off your debt faster and do more engaging work.
DensoToke wrote:They are wealthy individuals, but they are greedy and money is all they care for.
To be blunt, it sounds like you have some resentment for your parents. I don't know them or you but that's the impression that I get. I can understand why you'd feel that way given your description of them. But cutting off all ties seems really harsh and is a lose-lose situation for everyone. If you remain on such bad terms with them and enter the monastic life, you'll be carrying excess mental baggage that will make things harder there. Honestly, I'd reconsider ordaining and instead make your priority repairing your relationship. It can't have always been like this, can it? This is just speculation, but perhaps your craving to ordain has blinded you to other things that you once considered important and your parents still do. And this has caused a rift between you.

Also, remember the Buddha's words on what a child owes their parents. You may not be able to establish them in generosity, but I think you can work on your relationship so that it becomes at least on the level of mutual respect. Your parents love you: you're their son. Whatever has come between you can be, if not reconciled, at least acknowledged and brought out in the open so you can exist on good terms.
"I tell you, monks, there are two people who are not easy to repay. Which two? Your mother & father. Even if you were to carry your mother on one shoulder & your father on the other shoulder for 100 years, and were to look after them by anointing, massaging, bathing, & rubbing their limbs, and they were to defecate & urinate right there [on your shoulders], you would not in that way pay or repay your parents. If you were to establish your mother & father in absolute sovereignty over this great earth, abounding in the seven treasures, you would not in that way pay or repay your parents. Why is that? Mother & father do much for their children. They care for them, they nourish them, they introduce them to this world. But anyone who rouses his unbelieving mother & father, settles & establishes them in conviction; rouses his unvirtuous mother & father, settles & establishes them in virtue; rouses his stingy mother & father, settles & establishes them in generosity; rouses his foolish mother & father, settles & establishes them in discernment: To this extent one pays & repays one's mother & father."

-http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
I wish you well.

:anjali:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

DensoToke
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Re: Paying off all debt in hopes of soon ordaining

Post by DensoToke » Mon May 12, 2014 9:08 pm

I suppose I could go into a bit more detail about my parent. They adopted me when I was about five. We were never really close by any meaning of the word. I was the youngest of their children and the only one adopted. They told me once when I was fifteen that there was only one reason my mother wanted me and that is the state gives you a stipend of 1200 dollars. I did not want to quit speaking with them that was their decision and like I said I'm not upset with it. I know I'm making it out to sound like they are terrible people but I just telling it like it is. They know my number should they ever want to speak but if I call or text then I'll get no reply. I've accepted this and am honestly alright with it.

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Mkoll
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Re: Paying off all debt in hopes of soon ordaining

Post by Mkoll » Mon May 12, 2014 9:14 pm

DensoToke wrote:They told me once when I was fifteen that there was only one reason my mother wanted me and that is the state gives you a stipend of 1200 dollars.
Are you serious? Did they really say something so cold and heartless to you? Even if that's how they really felt, to actually say that you is just really messed up, IMO.

Well, knowing those details makes the situation make a lot more sense. I'm sure there's more to the story but you've said plenty. That's very open of you.

All the best.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

santa100
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Re: Paying off all debt in hopes of soon ordaining

Post by santa100 » Mon May 12, 2014 9:17 pm

DensoToke wrote: I don't really see returning to college as being a way to reach my goals. I would have to take out even more loans to cover the tuition and fees, which would only drive me further into debt.
There're certification programs that don't require a college degree and yet pay very well. Consider those allied health programs like Nurse assistant, X-ray, Ultrasound, or Medical imaging technologies. For example, Ultrasound technology only requires a certificate but still can pay in the 70-90K range in the North East. You should seriously take a look into these. Good luck..

DensoToke
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Re: Paying off all debt in hopes of soon ordaining

Post by DensoToke » Tue May 13, 2014 8:35 pm

Santa, well to be honest I have thought about trying to take an EMT certification course, possibly even a full paramedic. I feel it's something that would be useful for a life time.

santa100
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Re: Paying off all debt in hopes of soon ordaining

Post by santa100 » Wed May 14, 2014 12:42 am

That's another good option. Use salary.com to get more info. about different careers, below are info. on paramedic and ultrasound technician in NYC. Also make sure to stop by your local community college and local hospital/health center to get more info..
http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Para ... rk-NY.aspx
http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/ultr ... rk-NY.aspx

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Mkoll
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Re: Paying off all debt in hopes of soon ordaining

Post by Mkoll » Wed May 14, 2014 3:06 am

Another useful site for job info is:

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/

I'd go for a job that's in high demand in your area.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

DensoToke
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Re: Paying off all debt in hopes of soon ordaining

Post by DensoToke » Wed May 14, 2014 3:39 am

Thank you both for the links, I have an interview with Lowes Thursday. Better than fast food and it full time 40 plus hours. I also think I'll be able to get a vehicle soon so that will help expand my options. I know I can achieve this goal whether it be one year or twenty it'll have to be done.

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manas
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Re: Paying off all debt in hopes of soon ordaining

Post by manas » Wed May 14, 2014 2:28 pm

DensoToke wrote:Thank you both for the links, I have an interview with Lowes Thursday. Better than fast food and it full time 40 plus hours. I also think I'll be able to get a vehicle soon so that will help expand my options. I know I can achieve this goal whether it be one year or twenty it'll have to be done.
Hi Denso, that's great but do remember that the most essential thing is the practice we do right now, today, this moment. Because we could all be dead tomorrow, so the practice of the Dhamma should not be put off until all of the external conditions are absolutely perfect. We just might not have that much time. Ordaining would be great I agree, but remember what is most essential, and persevere with that above all else.

I truly empathize with your situation regarding your parents' attitude towards you, however. Although I had my bio parents and they did actually love me, nevertheless their care was pretty messed up in some ways - I experienced one being emotionally unavailable due to alcoholism, and the other was quite abusive in certain ways (while I was growing up, that is; they both tried (and the still surviving one is trying) to make up for this in later years, but sadly my formative years were difficult as a result)...In your case, as in mine, I suspect that making a habit of self-acceptance and extending unconditional loving-kindness towards yourself will be really important just for getting though life, imho. I know it is for me.

kind regards
manas
Knowing this body is like a clay jar,
securing this mind like a fort,
attack Mara with the spear of discernment,
then guard what's won without settling there,
without laying claim.

- Dhp 40

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