Informations about Ajahn Kevali

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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waterchan
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Re: Informations about Ajahn Kevali

Post by waterchan » Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:05 pm

James the Giant wrote:
piano piano wrote: zero family and friends contact in the first 6 years.
Wow! I wonder if that includes writing letters.
That's way too strict for me. That's nuts.
Zero contact with your parents for 6 years strikes me as rather uncompassionate towards the parents...
quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur
(Anything in Latin sounds profound.)

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James the Giant
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Re: Informations about Ajahn Kevali

Post by James the Giant » Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:46 am

waterchan wrote:
James the Giant wrote:
piano piano wrote: zero family and friends contact in the first 6 years.
Wow! I wonder if that includes writing letters.
That's way too strict for me. That's nuts.
Zero contact with your parents for 6 years strikes me as rather uncompassionate towards the parents...
Remember nobody has asked him directly, all this information is 2nd hand.
He may allow frequent letter writing, we just don't know.
Better to give the benefit of the doubt.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11

alxzndr
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Re: Informations about Ajahn Kevali

Post by alxzndr » Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:16 pm

Just for posterity. The existence of a parent's kuti at Nanachat kind of mitigates against the no chat rule, as did the parents i saw whilst there. No tech, but I'd guess the odd letter fine

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Samana Johann 1
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Re: Informations about Ajahn Kevali

Post by Samana Johann 1 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:45 pm

Basic infos: Ajahn Kevali (Henning Eggers), E-Mail: aj.kevali@forestsangha.net

Being open and straight forward, my person is not happy about the current policies and use of the Ajahn Chah (e.g. the leading "western" Sangha) in many regards and having had indirect direct contact, such tendencies have of cause just place if the leaders give into it.

And to "reject" general oppinions of western monks, there is no real reason to limit the access, to develope further rules for people desiring ordination, of course it's nevertheless up to those who are in charge or able to give goodness.

On the other side, one should remember that one actually counts as a person former a follower of other religion and one might look into Mv I 25: Aññatitthiyapubbakathā — The Discussion of Those Previously a Member of Another Religion.

In general it would be not wrong to suspect the western Sangha especialy in the west of improper association, living in dependency of certain relations, and it would be good if the Sangha tends to possible clean certain hindrance by approaching their elders and origin.

It's a foolish undertaking if having such as a vision of a "western Sangha", it's simply food for split.

The western Ajahn Chah Sangha is broadly know, even if trying to cover their real politic, to 1. use association of lay people leaded association, to 2. approve certain things their father do not, to tend to give up certain impotand things for the sake of becoming and to progress such, giving favor and so called "political correctness" since they desire to resist in areas where not wisdom or Dhamma-Vinaya counts but majorities of desires.

One should think about the matter of how it could be possible to have a Sangha in counties where having not even been invited by the authority.

Everybody does good to give a little preassure, formost of cause those in charge (clean members the Sangha) so that such fatal ideas of west/east or county Sanghas disapear for Visions of those probably still to much compassionate without proper faith or wisdom.

Such as traditions of "open vihara", a supporting lay community can ask for to get things answered and doubts cleaned, is something strangely did not arrive into the so "liberal" west.
It's not clear if the possibility to take on form here is given, so also this post might be made on merely uncomfortable trust. Please don't be shy to make remark as well as to do what ever with the post you might be inspired to. Key is found here. May it be, how ever, understood as Dhamma-Dana toward the Sangha of Buddhas Savakas and those following them and not thought for any kind of trade or exchange for low purpose for the world. Feel also always welcome here.

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Samana Johann 1
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Re: Informations about Ajahn Kevali

Post by Samana Johann 1 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:52 pm

Taking in account that some like to find ground for proper judging Ven. Kevali, one should investigate the matter of "from other religion" carefully, also of possible actally compassion it could carry if using the tool of prohibition.

Being with such as "western branch" totally left alone and in struggle with both sides, my personal advice, again, would be to cut of the idea of western or for western totally. If people are devoted enought and able to maintain proper respect and gratitude toward their parents in a new given live, such as nationalism or indentification others then no more part of wordly families, whould have no place at all.

All one can learn by being total left with a complete different world is to work hard for the gaining of right view.

So generally, if one sees a person not advertising for ones old values but for certain alien to ones, coming from the west, it probably wise to ask further and learn from him and try to understand his views.

As someone having abound shoes at all, aside of thinking about the matter of how much value his taken task generally has, my person would not a little desire his multi-fronts burdens as he surely has.

One may just think of how many "heros for their previous abounded families", yet not beyound one in training, are running around on the globe and as a suspected father, having to carry all of what might come back from the "childs".

Good to remember ones own duties in certain relation all the time and recognice these relations at first hand as well:
http://zugangzureinsicht.org/html/tipitaka/dn/dn.31.0.nara_en.html wrote:"In five ways, young householder, should a householder minister to ascetics and brahmans as the Zenith:

(i) by lovable deeds,
(ii) by lovable words,
(iii) by lovable thoughts,
(iv) by keeping open house to them,
(v) by supplying their material needs.
Doing so, one will not come into "danger" falling from above.

At least: the cut off of contact to that one actually leaves when leaving home is a very needed thing, also to be in good dependency of Nissaya, even in regard of such as teachings via modern communication tools, since, like it is pointed out on other places in the Mahavagga: "Those previous from other religions then to be rebellious. If they get things aside of dependency from the teacher/Nissaya, they soon will say/think: 'There is no need of Nissaya, the Sangha takes care of me."

A matter which would require probably a lot of explaining, since there are many things going totally agains western, better modern or strong wrong view tendencies. Surely seldom even allowed to be adressed since annoying the most ones "Dhammawheels" depends on.

Who ever gives such place would give not only up certain kinds of hindering stinginess, but also good ground for those able to grow in Dhamma to increase faith.
It's not clear if the possibility to take on form here is given, so also this post might be made on merely uncomfortable trust. Please don't be shy to make remark as well as to do what ever with the post you might be inspired to. Key is found here. May it be, how ever, understood as Dhamma-Dana toward the Sangha of Buddhas Savakas and those following them and not thought for any kind of trade or exchange for low purpose for the world. Feel also always welcome here.

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Nwad
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Re: Informations about Ajahn Kevali

Post by Nwad » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:41 am

I think Buddha could add this rule about zero internet in Patimokkha if he lived this century, but he cant live this century because there is no conditions for such event...

One question about family, can one bhikkhu make a hug to his mother?

EmptyShadow
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Re: Informations about Ajahn Kevali

Post by EmptyShadow » Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:03 pm

Nwad wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:41 am
One question about family, can one bhikkhu make a hug to his mother?
According to vinaya:
Thanissaro Bhikkhu, in his 'Buddhist Monastic Code' states that "The Vinita-vatthu contains cases of a bhikkhu who caresses his mother out of filial affection, one who caresses his daughter out of fatherly affection, and one who caresses his sister out of brotherly affection. In each case the penalty is a dukkaṭa."
In this topic the matter is discussed in more details. viewtopic.php?t=7955

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Nwad
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Re: Informations about Ajahn Kevali

Post by Nwad » Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:54 pm

Thank you Dear EmptyShadow ! :anjali:

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pilgrim
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Re: Informations about Ajahn Kevali

Post by pilgrim » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:24 am

There were earlier remarks that Ajahn Kevali was reluctant to ordain new monks but it seems he was only recently authorised to do so.

"Having passed the examinations required by the Mahatherasamakom, on Sunday 28th January 2018, Ajahn Kevali, abbot of Wat Nanachat, was appointed as a Preceptor (Upajjahaya) with full authority to perform bhikkhu ordinations within Thailand."

https://forestsangha.org/community/news ... -upajjhaya

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Idappaccayata
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Re: Informations about Ajahn Kevali

Post by Idappaccayata » Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:05 am

cooran wrote:
Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:26 pm
According to Ajahn Sujato, Ajahn Kevali is a stalwart of the Anti-bhikkhuni Movement:

http://sujato.wordpress.com/2009/11/05/ ... -nanachat/

With metta,
Chris
This is going to come off a little harsh, but I don't really know how else to put it. I find sujato insufferablly arrogant. He seems politicised in almost everything he does. Almost like he and his friends are the first monks to actually "get" Buddhism. He does good scholarly work, and I've tried consuming most of it - I think it has real value, but it seems tainted with conceit to me. It's like everything he does, he does so he can take credit, because the existing model isn't quite good enough. And I happen to agree with him in most areas.

It just seems like he's only focused on the external wrappings of Buddhism, and has nothing to do with training the mind. Unless it's to prove how his translation or interpretation is the correct one.
The furniture may be exquisite,
And the bars of solid gold,
But once the bird realizes that the cage is a cage,
It finds within that cage
No joy

- Ajahn Jayasaro

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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Informations about Ajahn Kevali

Post by JamesTheGiant » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:59 am

Idappaccayata wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:05 am

This is going to come off a little harsh, but I don't really know how else to put it. I find sujato insufferablly arrogant.
It does seem like that... I've lived in the same monastery as him for 6 months or so and I know what you mean. But it seems like that because he's so much smarter than everyone else. He really is as intelligent as he sounds. He's so used to being right because he's pretty much always right, and is and has always been the smartest person in the room.
His mind is just astonishing. Unfortunately that actual superiority comes across as un-earned superiority.

thang
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Re: Informations about Ajahn Kevali

Post by thang » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:31 pm

Late Venerable Nyanavimala had taught that a monk who keep contacts with his
1. Old Family
2. Old Friends
3. Old Country
is still a Samanera. (though some suspects whether it is an extreme.)
http://ven-nyanavimala.buddhasasana.net
"Bhikkhus, whatever the Tathāgata speaks, utters, or expounds
in the interval between
the night when he awakens to the unsurpassed perfect enlightenment
and the night when he attains final nibbāna,
all that is just so and not otherwise"
;

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AgarikaJ
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Re: Informations about Ajahn Kevali

Post by AgarikaJ » Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:10 pm

A maybe interesting quote from The Bhikkhus' Rules: A Guide for Laypeople by Bhikkhu Ariyesako:
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... guide.html
"If a bhikkhu touches his mother out of affection, then this is still an offence but the lesser one of wrong-doing (dukka.ta). [46] While gratitude to parents was strongly emphasized by the Buddha, the bhikkhu having left the home-life and his family should not cling to worldly relationships. The only true way for him to fulfill his filial obligations is by gaining insight into Dhamma and then teaching his parents."
So meeting your parents (in the form of laypeople) should be still okay when they are visiting the monastery and their status as deserving special respect is a given, it seems to be advised that this happens in a detached way by the monk.

However, there is also the perspective from the parents who might want to see their son, gaining Sukha due to his searching of the Dhamma.

Being barred from seeing the parents at all for a very extended period of time? I find that highly implausible as monks, even in training stage, are interacting daily with the lay community at Wat Pah Nanachat. Additionally, the page outlining the joining process makes no indication of it:
http://www.watpahnanachat.org/joining/

However, this page also carries the following note, with a reasoning I find understandable. So if the parents are unwilling or unable to be physically present in Thailand, close contact in the sense we understand it nowadays would be difficult.
One last little note: although everybody who comes here is surely generally inspired by the idea of 'leaving it all behind', many visitors who come with the wish to ordain carry a variety of electronic gadgets with them (telephones, i-pads, tablets, cameras, laptops, etc). To maintain the spirit of a forest monastery of living in a simple, natural environment, we ask all our newcomers to give up such items. Please be aware that generally we have decided to not to use e-mail and internet in our monastery.
I am sure that Ajahn Kevali or one of his lay helpers (his contact is listed in another pst above) is happy to answer a direct question about parental contact, if this is the only hindrance to consider ordination -- which is only a step taken after a very long and drawn-out process at Wat Pah Nanachat anyway.
The teaching is a lake with shores of ethics, unclouded, praised by the fine to the good.
There the knowledgeable go to bathe, and cross to the far shore without getting wet.
[SN 7.21]

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