Dhamma Wheel Buddhist Forum

how old do you need to be to be refused ordination in theravada tradition?

Here's something anecdotal:

There were suggestions that at 50 years old and with minor health issues, I may be too old to ordain at Na Uyana. But this wasn't a firm and final matter. I had confidence that were I to demonstrate determination and sincerity as a lay man for one or two years, there would be no problem ordaining. Some people suggested a way around this would be to ordain somewhere else and then return to Na Uyana to seek residence. That idea didn't appeal to me. I prefer to be straight forward.

This suggests to me that ~50 years of age approaches something of a soft barrier, and that this can really depend upon the context.

konchokzopa wrote:how old do you need to be to be refused ordination in theravada tradition?

I don't think there is any limit, in Thailand it's not uncommon for monasteries to be retirement villages for people who don't have family to look after them in their old age. I think Wat Pah Nanachaat has a limit of 50, maybe others do depending on the circumstances and how rigged the lifestyle is.

At my "home Wat" in Thailand, the Abbott ordained an elderly man ( he must be in his late 60's, or 70's) who asked to be ordained in his old age and his family could not house him. He is a very good monk, attends morning and evening chanting, very kind, and he spends much of his day sweeping the grounds of the temple. There may not be an age limit in Thailand, and much probably depends on the Abbot's approach to ordination, and whether the temple has the space and ability to take on new monks.

I asked this question in reference to Abhiyagiri monastery in California. I was told that 45 is considered the cutoff age for that monetary, but they have made exceptions for older applications under special circumstances. (There were two bhikkhus there who ordained older than 50.) I was told each monastery has it's own rules about this, and there are monasteries in Asia that will ordain older applicants.

As far as I know, there is no Vinaya upper age limit, however, individual monasteries do have an upper limit. I think it might have something to do with health care costs and similar issues.

I believe there is a previous thread somewhere here of a monk in his 90s who ordained in North Hollywood, California. He was a former Christian minister who became Buddhist, ordained, lived a few more years at the temple and then passed away with the monks chanting at his side.

So, if the Vinaya is silent on the age limit, why do individual monasteries create and impose such?

There are practical reasons for it if you consider the limited facilities in the West especially and what it takes to train a new monk so that they can later carry the duties of the monastery. If you had too many older men joining the Sangha in the West the monastery would quickly turn into a nursing home with not enough younger monks to run around and look after the old ones. Also it is hard to "teach an old dog new tricks" as they say...

plwk wrote:So, if the Vinaya is silent on the age limit, why do individual monasteries create and impose such?

The monk I interviewed cited several reasons for the rule at Abhiyagiri.

First of all, the monastery is built on a big hill. Every day the monks walk up and down that hill, with a steep grade, several times. Any monk there would need to be excellent health, and hopefully still be in excellent health 10 years from now.

The training for a beginning monastic is roughly a 5 year program. A monk is considered a leader in that community after about 15 years. The hope of the monastery is that junior monks will travel and stay at other monasteries worldwide as part of their training. It is also hoped that 15 year monks will move on, either to start new branch monasteries or function in leadership roles in monasteries world-wide. Consider a monk who ordains at age 30 versus a monk who ordains at age 60, regarding a 5-15 year program.

The monks care for eachother in times of illness, this is their social contract. But the monastery is not set up for long-term convolescence care, this would put a lot of burden on the other monks. So they try to have a mix of monks who are younger and older, so that they don't have too many monks reaching elderly ages at the same time.

konchokzopa wrote:how old do you need to be to be refused ordination in theravada tradition?

And how old do I need to be to ask?

Thank you Bhante and MM. I am aware of such practical reasons but surely back then, they could have faced such too and similar measures should have been in place?
Just thinking aloud...

plwk wrote:Thank you Bhante and MM. I am aware of such practical reasons but surely back then, they could have faced such too and similar measures should have been in place?
Just thinking aloud...

Yeah, I'm just a parrot here. "Thus have I heard..." I would ordain today if it weren't for my student loan debt. I'm 42, so this interview clarified for me that ordination is probably not likely in this lifetime.

Although the Vinaya was not explicit on things such as age limits, my understanding is that it empowers a monastic community to be very selective about potential applicants.

Nobody asked about the minimum age to be ordained yet. Well, he is less than 2 years old and he wants to be a monk already in Thailand:

The training for a beginning monastic is roughly a 5 year program. A monk is considered a leader in that community after about 15 years. The hope of the monastery is that junior monks will travel and stay at other monasteries worldwide as part of their training. It is also hoped that 15 year monks will move on, either to start new branch monasteries or function in leadership roles in monasteries world-wide. Consider a monk who ordains at age 30 versus a monk who ordains at age 60, regarding a 5-15 year program.

NWO...