Diabetic problem in ordination

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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polo
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Diabetic problem in ordination

Post by polo » Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:45 pm

I hope someone who has experience as monk in temple in Thailand could answer my questions. I have diabetic symptoms can I still ordain as a monk.
Problem is I get hungry very fast so having one meal a day in temple would starve me and I would feel miserable.
I am looking forward to the reply to my question.

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Dhammanando
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Re: Diabetic problem in ordination

Post by Dhammanando » Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:03 pm

polo wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:45 pm
I hope someone who has experience as monk in temple in Thailand could answer my questions. I have diabetic symptoms can I still ordain as a monk.
Problem is I get hungry very fast so having one meal a day in temple would starve me and I would feel miserable.
Yes, there's no Vinaya objection to diabetics ordaining. The Thai sangha has lots of them. You would just have to look either for a wat where the monks take two or three meals in the morning or for one with a laissez faire policy, where monks take their food to their kuti after returning from almsround and are then free to take as many meals as they want between dawn and noon.

In effect this would rule out forest wats in the Ajahn Mun or Ajahn Chah traditions, but would be no problem in any town or village wat and in those forest wats where the dhutaṅga observances are not made obligatory.
“Keep to your own pastures, bhikkhus, walk in the haunts where your fathers roamed.
If ye thus walk in them, Māra will find no lodgement, Māra will find no foothold.”
— Cakkavattisīhanāda Sutta

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salayatananirodha
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Re: Diabetic problem in ordination

Post by salayatananirodha » Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:08 pm

if you read the kitagiri sutta, in which the buddha lays out and explains the rule, he states that he eats once a day and is in good health. eating once a day before noon is good for your health. all arahants eat once a day before noon
but there are tonics as well you can use after noon that might help stabilize blood sugar crash. fresh butter, ghee, honey, oil, molasses (?)
a lay person has to offer them to you
some strained juices are always allowable after noon, i could provide a source
16. 'In what has the world originated?' — so said the Yakkha Hemavata, — 'with what is the world intimate? by what is the world afflicted, after having grasped at what?' (167)

17. 'In six the world has originated, O Hemavata,' — so said Bhagavat, — 'with six it is intimate, by six the world is afflicted, after having grasped at six.' (168)

- Hemavatasutta


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polo
Posts: 240
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:22 pm

Re: Diabetic problem in ordination

Post by polo » Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:38 pm

Dhammanando wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:03 pm
polo wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:45 pm
I hope someone who has experience as monk in temple in Thailand could answer my questions. I have diabetic symptoms can I still ordain as a monk.
Problem is I get hungry very fast so having one meal a day in temple would starve me and I would feel miserable.
Yes, there's no Vinaya objection to diabetics ordaining. The Thai sangha has lots of them. You would just have to look either for a wat where the monks take two or three meals in the morning or for one with a laissez faire policy, where monks take their food to their kuti after returning from almsround and are then free to take as many meals as they want between dawn and noon.

In effect this would rule out forest wats in the Ajahn Mun or Ajahn Chah traditions, but would be no problem in any town or village wat and in those forest wats where the dhutaṅga observances are not made obligatory.
I really appreciate your reply to my question. Much obliged. So now I am not so worried about falling over from hypoglycemia. Or having cold sweats pouring out and shivering sensations. These are symptoms. It affects your thinking and at times your behavior as well.
Once again thank you Dhammanado.

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Ceisiwr
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Re: Diabetic problem in ordination

Post by Ceisiwr » Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:32 pm

If you have type 2 diabetes there is a chance of reversing it via weight loss.
“Lust is a maker of signs. Aversion is a maker of signs. Delusion is a maker of signs.” MN 43

"Rooted in desire, friends, are all phenomena; originating in attention, are all phenomena”
— A. v. 106).

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Dhammanando
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Re: Diabetic problem in ordination

Post by Dhammanando » Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:05 pm

salayatananirodha wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:08 pm
if you read the kitagiri sutta, in which the buddha lays out and explains the rule, he states that he eats once a day and is in good health. eating once a day before noon is good for your health.
You seem to be conflating the Kiṭāgiri and Kaka­cūpama­ Suttas. In the former the Buddha exhorts the bhikkhus not to eat at night but makes no stipulation about the number of meals. In the latter he describes a past occasion when he had exhorted certain bhikkhus who were "accomplished in mind" to eat their meals in a single session; the exhortation had proved unnecessary, for the bhikkhus were already doing that of their own accord.

In both suttas the Buddha is giving a Dhamma exhortation. In neither is he laying down a rule. The circumstances of the laying down of pācittiya 37 are given in the Vinaya's Suttavibhaṅga.

https://suttacentral.net/pli-tv-bu-vb-pc37/en/brahmali
salayatananirodha wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:08 pm
all arahants eat once a day before noon
But not all bhikkhus training for arahantship eat a single meal. Nor are they required to. For example, it was (and in Myanmar still is) a common practice to eat a bowl of conjey before setting off on almsround in the morning.
salayatananirodha wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:08 pm
but there are tonics as well you can use after noon that might help stabilize blood sugar crash. fresh butter, ghee, honey, oil, molasses (?)
a lay person has to offer them to you
Not necessarily.

To be usable by bhikkhus they do of course need to have been offered to the saṅgha, but not necessarily to the particular bhikkhu who consumes them. In Asian monastic practice they would more often have been offered to the monastery as a whole because it's widely known by laypeople that a gift to the saṅgha is more meritorious than a gift to an individual. Having been offered, they're then placed in the monastery's store to be distributed by whoever's acting as the monastery's "distributor of trifles" (appamattakavissajjaka).
“Keep to your own pastures, bhikkhus, walk in the haunts where your fathers roamed.
If ye thus walk in them, Māra will find no lodgement, Māra will find no foothold.”
— Cakkavattisīhanāda Sutta

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