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In which sutta is this: I don't argue with the world...

Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:04 pm
by Stiphan
The Buddha said once, "I do not argue with the world. It is the world which argues with me." (found the quote here)

In which sutta is this mentioned?

Re: In which sutta is this: I don't argue with the world...

Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 6:15 pm
by Kare
Stefan wrote:The Buddha said once, "I do not argue with the world. It is the world which argues with me." (found the quote here)

In which sutta is this mentioned?
Pupphasutta, Samyutta Nikaya 3, 1, 10, 2 (PTS 3, 138)

Re: In which sutta is this: I don't argue with the world...

Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 6:51 pm
by Stiphan
Thank you very much!

Re: In which sutta is this: I don't argue with the world...

Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:12 pm
by BubbaBuddhist
The Buddha must have anticipate the Internet. :lol:
J

Re: In which sutta is this: I don't argue with the world...

Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:09 am
by Aloka
Pupphasutta, Samyutta Nikaya 3, 1, 10, 2 (PTS 3, 138)
How do I find these references at Access to Insight, please ? I started looking in SN 3 ....but there's no 3, it starts with 3.1 and so on. Nor could I find 'Pupphasutta'.


metta,

Aloka

Re: In which sutta is this: I don't argue with the world...

Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:35 am
by Stiphan
Aloka wrote:
Pupphasutta, Samyutta Nikaya 3, 1, 10, 2 (PTS 3, 138)
How do I find these references at Access to Insight, please ? I started looking in SN 3 ....but there's no 3, it starts with 3.1 and so on. Nor could I find 'Pupphasutta'.


metta,

Aloka
Try this.

Puppha Sutta is SN 22.94

Re: In which sutta is this: I don't argue with the world...

Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:41 am
by Aloka
Thanks very much, Stephan :)



.

Re: In which sutta is this: I don't argue with the world...

Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:44 am
by dragonwarrior
Stefan wrote:
Try this.

Puppha Sutta is SN 22.94
still can't find it.. help me?

Re: In which sutta is this: I don't argue with the world...

Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:26 am
by mikenz66
Hi Winny,

Here is an extract. (This is the start of the Sutta.)
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el186.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Bhikkhus, I do not dispute with the world [the 'world' in the sense of other people], the world disputes with me: no one who proclaims the True Idea [dhamma] disputes with anyone in the world. What wise men in the world say there is not [natthi], that I too say there is not; and what wise men in the world say there is [atthi], that I too say there is... Wise men in the world say there is no permanent, everlasting, eternal materiality not subject to change, and I too say there is none. [And likewise with the other four categories.] Wise men in the world say that there is impermanent materiality that is unpleasant and the subject to change, and I too say there is that."
— SN 22.94/vol. iii, 138-9

Here is the whole thing. Unfortunately the middle part of this translation is almost unintelligible. In Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation it is much clearer: The Buddha is explains what the wise in the world agree on: There is no permanent form, etc; There is impermanent form, etc.; ...
http://www.metta.lk/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pit ... ggo-e.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
21. 2. 5. 2.

(94) Pupphasutta The Flower

1. I heard thus. At one time the Blessed One lived in the monastery offered by Anatiapindika in Jeta's grove in Sàvatthi.

2. From there the Blessed One addressed the monks.

3. Monks, I do not dispute with the world. The world disputes with me. Monks saying it properly, there is no dispute with the world on account of anything.

4. If it is, there is no righteous wisdom in the world, I too say, it is so. If it is, there is righteous wisdom in the world, I too say, it is so.

5. Monks, how is there no righteous wisdom in the world, which I too say, is so?

6. Monks, there is no righteous wisdom in the world, as matter is permanent, stable, stands forever and does not change. I too say, it is so.

7-9. Monks, there is no righteous wisdom in the world, as feelings, perceptions, intentions are permanent, stable, stands forever and do not change. I too say, it is so.

10. Monks, there is no righteous wisdom in the world, as consciousness is permanent, stable, stands forever and does not change. I too say, it is so.

11. Monks, thus there is no righteous wisdom in the world, which I too say, is so.

12. Monks, how is there righteous wisdom in the world, which I too say, is so?

13. Monks, there is righteous wisdom in the world, as matter is impermanent, unstable, does not stand forever without a change. I too say, it is so.

14-16. Monks, there is righteous wisdom in the world, as feelings, perceptions, intentions are impermanent, unstable, not everlasting, changes. I too say, it is so.

17. Monks, there is righteous wisdom in the world, as consciousness is impermanent, unstable, does not stand forever without change. I too say, it is so.

18. Monks, thus there is righteous wisdom in the world, which I too say, is so.

19. Monks, these are worldly conditions which the Thus Gone One realizing and thoroughly understanding, tells, preaches, makes known, establishes, explaining makes threadbare, and opens up.

20. Monks, what are the worldly conditions which the Thus Gone One realizing and thoroughly understanding, tell, preach, make known, establish, explaining make threadbare and open?

21. Monks, this worldly condition of matter, the Thus Gone One realizing and thoroughly understanding, tells, preaches, makes known, establishes, explaining makes threadbare, and opens up. When this is done the ordinary, foolish man does not have insight does not know it and see it, so what shall I do about it?

22. Monks, this worldly condition of feelings, the Thus Gone One realizing and thoroughly understanding, tells, preaches, makes known, establishes, explaining makes threadbare, and opens up. When this is done the ordinary, foolish man does not have insight does not know it and see it, so what shall I do about it?

23. Monks, this worldly condition of perceptions, the Thus Gone One realizing and thoroughly understanding, tells, preaches, makes known, establishes, explaining makes threadbare, and opens up. When this is done the ordinary, foolish man does not have insight does not know it and see it, so what shall I do about it?

24. Monks, this worldly condition of intentions, the Thus Gone One realizing and thoroughly understanding, tells, preaches, makes known, establishes, explaining makes threadbare, and opens up. When this is done the ordinary, foolish man does not have insight does not know it and see it, so what shall I do about it?

25. Monks, this worldly condition of consciousness, the Thus Gone One realizing and thoroughly understanding, tells, preaches, makes known, establishes, explaining makes threadbare, and opens up. When this is done the ordinary, foolish man does not have insight does not know it and see it, so what shall I do about it?

26. Monks, the blue, red, or white lotus, born and nourished in the water, rises beyond the water and stands unsoiled by the water.

27. Monks in the same manner the Thus Gone One nourished in the world stands above it, not soiled by the world.
Mike

Re: In which sutta is this: I don't argue with the world...

Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 8:02 am
by lojong1
Winny wrote:
Stefan wrote:
Try this.

Puppha Sutta is SN 22.94
still can't find it.. help me?
Access to insight doesn't seem to have it (many others missing too).

It's in SamyuttaNikaya-KhandhaVagga-KhandhaSamyutta#94,

Click Stefan's "this" link to suttacentral.net
Click Samyutta Nikaya.
Click SN 22 Khandha Samyutta
At SN 22.94 Puppha, click the Union Jack on the right of the screen, then scroll down to the second sutta on the page. German flag takes you straight to the German translation.

Re: In which sutta is this: I don't argue with the world...

Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 4:02 pm
by dragonwarrior
Got it. Thank you so much
:anjali:

Re: In which sutta is this: I don't argue with the world...

Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 4:43 pm
by Kare
It is a sad fact that the reference systems for Tipitaka - especially for the Anguttara and Samyutta Nikayas - is a chaos. There are several different systems in use, and finding a given text in the Anguttara and Samyutta can be quite difficult at times, especially if the reference given does not match the reference system in the edition you are looking into.

The only really consistent system that I know, is the one that is used in the Bangkok edition of the Tipitaka, where any part of any text can be easily located by reference to volume, page and paragraph. But no one else is using this system.

It would be a very good thing if an international committee could decide on a clear, consistent and universal reference system for the entire Tipitaka - and every publisher of texts and translations then could use that system. But I fear that different editions already are so deep entrenched in the systems they already use, that this is not very likely to happen.

Re: In which sutta is this: I don't argue with the world...

Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:55 am
by Hanzze
_/\_

Re: In which sutta is this: I don't argue with the world...

Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:39 pm
by gavesako
"There is no point in arguing..." ;-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbeuDikOfqI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Emotions are the same in kids and adults, only that adults can hide them or justify them better by using their rational mind...