Thanks. None of the suttas states that the Buddha says he indeed has the marks!Sovatthika wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:44 amhttps://suttacentral.net/en/dn14
there's a whole long discourse about the marks as well https://suttacentral.net/en/dn30
Buddha's skin colour
Re: Buddha's skin colour
Re: Buddha's skin colour
"These, brethren, are the Thirty-two Marks of the Superman, wherewith endowed he has two careers that lie open to him and none other: that of the Lord of the Wheel and that of Buddha Supreme"
~ Lakkhana sutta, DN30.
Seems clear enough
Re: Buddha's skin colour
How is that even possible? Prince Virudhaka of Kosala massacred the Shakyans...even though Kosala was a powerful kingdom back then, they still felt "inferior" to the Shakyans...pilgrim wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:48 am People claiming to be Sakyas still live along the southern edge of Nepal and in small communities in India, around Sankasia for eg. But I think intermarriage down thru the centuries have largely diluted physical features of their ethnicity.
Ven.Phra-Anil-Sakya.jpg
Phra Anil Shakya, an ethnic Sakyan of Nepali nationality living in Bangkok.
Anyway, this blue eyed Nepali Sadhu should offer a pretty convincing argument that the historical Buddha had blue eyes. I don't know about the forty teeth, though.
"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "
--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "
--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "
Re: Buddha's skin colour
Hi Kusala
Can you please explain how a random picture of a "blue eyed Nepali Sadhu" offers a "pretty convincing argument that the historical Buddha had blue eyes"?
Can you really try and think about that and come back with an answer?
Re: Buddha's skin colour
The Buddha does not say he is a Superman.
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Re: Buddha's skin colour
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.
In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.
In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
Re: Buddha's skin colour
Thanks. But I am unable to see that the text records the Buddha says I am a Great man! The Buddha in the text does not say he is indeed a Great man. The text only states what is Great man between the conversation of the two persons, the brahmin and the Buddha.Dhammanando wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:27 pmNot in the Lakkhaṇasutta, but he does elsewhere.
https://suttacentral.net/en/an4.35
- Dhammanando
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Re: Buddha's skin colour
It does more than that:
Vassakāra gives his view of the characteristics of a mahāpurisa.
The Buddha gives his view.
Vassakāra expresses approval of the Buddha's view and goes on to say that the Buddha possesses those characteristics.
The Buddha confirms that he possesses them.
Given what has preceded it, the Buddha's confirmation is tantamount to asserting his own mahāpurisa-ness.
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.
In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.
In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
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Re: Buddha's skin colour
I agree with this statement about sensitivity but the question is what is the motivation for this obsession with what the Buddha looked like? There are several posts going on right now about it. Seems like an excessive interest. The important things about the Buddha was not his appearance.pilgrim wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:05 pm Modern people are so fearful of being perceived as Racist ( there, I mentioned the elephant in the room), that any mention of skin colour is whispered only with extreme sensitivity. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with being curious of how the founder of our religion looked like. Yes, he's Asian, and probably looked like many north Indians today. If anyone has difficulty picturing that, google Shah Rukh Khan.
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Re: Buddha's skin colour
I agree with Mr Man and am wondering why are you, Kusala, apparently fixated on this idea that the Buddha had blue eyes? It is a theme running through several of your posts when the topic of the Buddha's appearance comes up. You don't appear to be as concerned about the other so-called 32 marks, but you seem to be especially fond of the idea of blue eyes?
I would imagine his eyes were brown like any other typical Indian; afaik, blue is rather rare.
Re: Buddha's skin colour
Hi David, I have always been fascinated with Indian and Indo-European history. It's like how some people are fascinated with the ancient Israelites and what not, my fascination is with the ancient Aryans.DNS wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:33 pmI agree with Mr Man and am wondering why are you, Kusala, apparently fixated on this idea that the Buddha had blue eyes? It is a theme running through several of your posts when the topic of the Buddha's appearance comes up. You don't appear to be as concerned about the other so-called 32 marks, but you seem to be especially fond of the idea of blue eyes?
I would imagine his eyes were brown like any other typical Indian; afaik, blue is rather rare.
I agree that blue eyes are rare in India, but it's not as strange as many people think. I have seen quite a few high caste Indians with blue or green eyes, so it makes perfect sense that the historical Buddha, who belonged to the ruling elite would have blue eyes.
"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "
--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "
--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "
Re: Buddha's skin colour
>Between Gayā and the Place of Enlightenment the Ājīvaka Upaka saw me on the road and said: ‘Friend, your faculties are clear, the colour of your skin is pure and bright. >
https://suttacentral.net/en/mn26
https://suttacentral.net/en/mn26
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Re: Buddha's skin colour
I suggest reading the Vasettha Sutta. That will tell you all you need to know about the relevance of race, color or physical markings.
To make it very simple, animals can get valid information about each other based on their physical characteristics; this process does not work with people. You can't discern anything about people from looking at them because their kamma is what matters. This is the Buddha teaching that preoccupation with race, racism itself, is not only unworkable from a spiritual standpoint, but a completely invalid world view he rejected. Put it in the same heap as nihilism, the caste system, and acausality.
To make it very simple, animals can get valid information about each other based on their physical characteristics; this process does not work with people. You can't discern anything about people from looking at them because their kamma is what matters. This is the Buddha teaching that preoccupation with race, racism itself, is not only unworkable from a spiritual standpoint, but a completely invalid world view he rejected. Put it in the same heap as nihilism, the caste system, and acausality.
Re: Buddha's skin colour
Hi Kusala
Really try and think about this. What you have said does not make sense at all.
What you have said is -
Kusala has seen "quite a few high caste Indians with blue or green eyes" and because of that "it makes perfect sense that the historical Buddha, who belonged to the ruling elite would have blue eyes."
How does that make sense?
Re: Buddha's skin colour
The text does not state the 32 marks of the mahapurisa. It says the mahapurisa with great wisdom.Dhammanando wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:57 pmIt does more than that:
Vassakāra gives his view of the characteristics of a mahāpurisa.
The Buddha gives his view.
Vassakāra expresses approval of the Buddha's view and goes on to say that the Buddha possesses those characteristics.
The Buddha confirms that he possesses them.
Given what has preceded it, the Buddha's confirmation is tantamount to asserting his own mahāpurisa-ness.