Buddha's skin colour

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and texts.
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Dhammanando
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Re: Buddha's skin colour

Post by Dhammanando » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:38 am

thomaslaw wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:56 am
The text does not state the 32 marks of the mahapurisa. It says the mahapurisa with great wisdom.
I know. It is nonetheless relevant as a response to the claim that the Buddha doesn't describe himself as a mahāpurisa.

thomaslaw
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Re: Buddha's skin colour

Post by thomaslaw » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:38 am

:twothumbsup:
Dhammanando wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:38 am
thomaslaw wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:56 am
The text does not state the 32 marks of the mahapurisa. It says the mahapurisa with great wisdom.
I know. It is nonetheless relevant as a response to the claim that the Buddha doesn't describe himself as a mahāpurisa.
Great wisdom of mahapurisa and the 32 marks of mahapurisa are certainly not the same mahapurisa. The Buddha does not in the text describe himself as the mahapurisa with 32 marks.

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Dhammanando
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Re: Buddha's skin colour

Post by Dhammanando » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:37 pm

thomaslaw wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:38 am
Great wisdom of mahapurisa and the 32 marks of mahapurisa are certainly not the same mahapurisa.
They certainly are, for in the Vassakārasutta the first of the four features of a great man of great wisdom includes the words, "... is one who has established the manyfolk in the ariyan method" (bahussa janatā ariye ñāye patiṭṭhāpitā). This is a descriptor that is only ever applied to Sammāsambuddhas.

That being so, the only difference between mahāpurisa in the Vassakārasutta and mahāpurisa in (some of) the thirty-two marks contexts is that in the former it it is a term for Sammāsambuddhas alone, while in the latter it may denote either Sammāsambuddhas or Wheel-turning Monarchs.

thomaslaw
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Re: Buddha's skin colour

Post by thomaslaw » Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:59 am

Dhammanando wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:37 pm
thomaslaw wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:38 am
Great wisdom of mahapurisa and the 32 marks of mahapurisa are certainly not the same mahapurisa.
They certainly are, for in the Vassakārasutta the first of the four features of a great man of great wisdom includes the words, "... is one who has established the manyfolk in the ariyan method" (bahussa janatā ariye ñāye patiṭṭhāpitā). This is a descriptor that is only ever applied to Sammāsambuddhas.

That being so, the only difference between mahāpurisa in the Vassakārasutta and mahāpurisa in (some of) the thirty-two marks contexts is that in the former it it is a term for Sammāsambuddhas alone, while in the latter it may denote either Sammāsambuddhas or Wheel-turning Monarchs.
Another difference is: in the latter the Buddha does not say he is the mahapurisa (with 32 marks).

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Kusala
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Re: Buddha's skin colour

Post by Kusala » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:46 am

Mr Man wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:11 am
Kusala wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:29 pm
I have seen quite a few high caste Indians with blue or green eyes, so it makes perfect sense that the historical Buddha, who belonged to the ruling elite would have blue eyes.
Hi Kusala
Really try and think about this. What you have said does not make sense at all.

What you have said is -

Kusala has seen "quite a few high caste Indians with blue or green eyes" and because of that "it makes perfect sense that the historical Buddha, who belonged to the ruling elite would have blue eyes."

How does that make sense?
Knowing what we know now, such as DNA and all that good stuff, it makes perfect sense...I haven't seen Indians with "forty teeth", but I've seen enough with "blue eyes" to convince me...it's about connecting the dots...we're not talking the whole of India, but just a small number of Indians who still resemble their Aryan forefathers...

Image

The late Indian actor, Raj Kapoor

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His granddaughter

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Northern Indian toddler

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Blue eyed Sadhu

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The Buddha's charioteer, Channa, looks pretty similar to the Sadhu pictured above, don't you think?

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"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "

thomaslaw
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Re: Buddha's skin colour

Post by thomaslaw » Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:33 am

Kusala wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:46 am

Knowing what we know now, such as DNA and all that good stuff, it makes perfect sense...I haven't seen Indians with "forty teeth",
Most adults have 32 teeth. Among these teeth are 8 incisors, 4 canines, 8 premolars, and 12 molars (including 4 wisdom teeth). Most people have a complete set of adult teeth by the time they reach their teenage years.

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Mr Man
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Re: Buddha's skin colour

Post by Mr Man » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:17 am

Kusala wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:46 am


Blue eyed Sadhu

Image

The Buddha's charioteer, Channa, looks pretty similar to the Sadhu pictured above, don't you think?

Image
:thinking:

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cappuccino
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Re: Buddha's skin colour

Post by cappuccino » Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:14 am

his skin was the color of skin

his blood was the color of blood

his bones were the color of bones
“Life is anxiety”

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Kusala
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Re: Buddha's skin colour

Post by Kusala » Mon May 21, 2018 12:23 am

cappuccino wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:14 am
his skin was the color of skin

his blood was the color of blood

his bones were the color of bones
I get what you're saying... people tend to make assumptions when discussing the appearance of the Buddha. The Buddha was from ancient Nepal, so they automatically assume that he'd look like the people from there. Human beings have been moving to different parts of the globe since recorded history.

Take, for instance, these people are all from China, but they don't look like they're from China.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Buddhist history is complex...

Image
Image

"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "

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Kusala
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Re: Buddha's skin colour

Post by Kusala » Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:02 am

thomaslaw wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:33 am
Kusala wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:46 am

Knowing what we know now, such as DNA and all that good stuff, it makes perfect sense...I haven't seen Indians with "forty teeth",
Most adults have 32 teeth. Among these teeth are 8 incisors, 4 canines, 8 premolars, and 12 molars (including 4 wisdom teeth). Most people have a complete set of adult teeth by the time they reach their teenage years.
I know. I was poking fun of the maha purisa lakkhaṇa(32 marks of a great man). Unless the Buddha was some kind of mutant, the maha purisa lakkhana is pretty much just myth. As for the "blue eyes", there might be some truth to it. This is due the fact that the Aryans invaded/migrated to India and passed on their genes. We see it in some Indians today. For instance, this Brahmin lady:

Image

Genetics carries more weight than just some ancient texts...
Image

"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "

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Volovsky
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Re: Buddha's skin colour

Post by Volovsky » Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:13 pm

Golden skin is mentioned not only among 32 characteristics, but also in Vinaya gold is actually defined as something being the color of the Buddha:
Gold (jātarūpa) means: it is called the colour of the teacher (satthuvaṇṇa).

(NP18; BD, 2.103)

What concerns blue eyes, it is said "nīla", which can mean any dark color. In Myanmar language nīla is actually translated as black (e.g. nila kasina is understood there as black kasina).

TRobinson465
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Re: Buddha's skin colour

Post by TRobinson465 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:47 am

Based on what my Nepalese friend told me, it is actually not uncommon for people in the northern indian subcontinent region to have blue eyes or light skin.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"At Varanasi, in the Deer Park at Isipatana, the Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

"Go forth, monks, for the good of the many, for the happiness of the many, out of compassion for the world, for the welfare, the good and the happiness of gods and men. Let no two of you go in the same direction." - First Khandhaka, Chapter 11, Vinaya.

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