auditing every single vitakka in the pali suttas

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and texts.
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frank k
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auditing every single vitakka in the pali suttas

Post by frank k » Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:09 pm

As I'm going through the documented audit, I'll share a few interesting finds.

Here in SN 1.64, it's obvious the vitakka and vicara are referring to what's possible to do in first jhana.

https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2 ... irst.html
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DooDoot
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Re: auditing every single vitakka in the pali suttas

Post by DooDoot » Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:33 pm

frank k wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:09 pm
Here in SN 1.64, it's obvious the vitakka and vicara are referring to what's possible to do in first jhana.
SN 1.64 appears to refer to thinking & pondering as a "fetter".
“What fetters the world? “Kiṃsu saṃyojano loko,
What explores it? kiṃsu tassa vicāraṇaṃ;
With the giving up of what Kissassu vippahānena,
is extinguishment spoken of? ”nibbānaṃ iti vuccatī”ti.

“Delight fetters the world. “Nandīsaṃyojano loko,
Thought explores it. vitakkassa vicāraṇaṃ;
With the giving up of craving Taṇhāya vippahānena,
extinguishment is spoken of. ”nibbānaṃ iti vuccatī”ti.

https://suttacentral.net/sn1.64/en/sujato
“By what is the world tightly fettered?
What is its means of travelling about?
What is it that one must forsake
In order to say, ‘Nibbāna’?”

“The world is tightly fettered by delight;
Thought is its means of travelling about.
Craving is what one must forsake
In order to say, ‘Nibbāna.’

https://suttacentral.net/sn1.64/en/bodhi
Therefore, it does not appear to be referring to the 1st jhana. Keep in mind, "the world" is synonymous with "dukkha", per SN 12.44:
And what is the origination of the world? Dependent on the eye & forms there arises eye-consciousness. The meeting of the three is contact. From contact as a requisite condition comes feeling. From feeling as a requisite condition comes craving. From craving as a requisite condition comes clinging. From clinging as a requisite condition comes becoming. From becoming as a requisite condition comes birth. From birth as a requisite condition, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair come into play. This is the origination of the world.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
Since vitakka & vicara appear to be a "fetter" in SN 1.64, they appear to have the same meaning as in MN 19 or SN 22 or MN 18, below:
Whatever a mendicant frequently thinks about and considers becomes their heart’s inclination.

Yaññadeva, bhikkhave, bhikkhu bahulamanuvitakketi anuvicāreti, tathā tathā nati hoti cetaso.

If they often think about and consider sensual thoughts, they’ve given up the thought of renunciation to cultivate sensual thought. Their mind inclines to sensual thoughts.

Kāmavitakkañce, bhikkhave, bhikkhu bahulamanuvitakketi anuvicāreti, pahāsi nekkhammavitakkaṃ, kāmavitakkaṃ bahulamakāsi, tassa taṃ kāmavitakkāya cittaṃ namati.

https://suttacentral.net/mn19/en/sujato
Eye consciousness arises dependent on the eye and sights. The meeting of the three is contact. Contact is a condition for feeling. What you feel, you perceive. What you perceive, you think about. What you think about, you proliferate. What you proliferate about is the source from which a person is beset by concepts of identity that emerge from the proliferation of perceptions. This occurs with respect to sights known by the eye in the past, future, and present.

Cakkhuñcāvuso, paṭicca rūpe ca uppajjati cakkhuviññāṇaṃ, tiṇṇaṃ saṅgati phasso, phassapaccayā vedanā, yaṃ vedeti taṃ sañjānāti, yaṃ sañjānāti taṃ vitakketi, yaṃ vitakketi taṃ papañceti, yaṃ papañceti tatonidānaṃ purisaṃ papañcasaññāsaṅkhā samudācaranti atītānāgatapaccuppannesu cakkhuviññeyyesu rūpesu.

https://suttacentral.net/mn18/en/sujato
Craving for sights …
Rūpataṇhā loke …
craving for sounds …
saddataṇhā loke …
craving for smells …
gandhataṇhā loke …
craving for tastes …
rasataṇhā loke …
craving for touches …
phoṭṭhabbataṇhā loke …
craving for thoughts in the world seems nice and pleasant, and it is there that craving arises and settles.
dhammataṇhā loke piyarūpaṃ sātarūpaṃ, etthesā taṇhā uppajjamānā uppajjati, ettha nivisamānā nivisati.

Thoughts about sights …
Rūpavitakko loke …
thoughts about sounds …
saddavitakko loke …
thoughts about smells …
gandhavitakko loke …
thoughts about tastes …
rasavitakko loke …
thoughts about touches …
phoṭṭhabbavitakko loke …
thoughts about thoughts in the world seem nice and pleasant, and it is there that craving arises and settles.
dhammavitakko loke piyarūpaṃ sātarūpaṃ, etthesā taṇhā uppajjamānā uppajjati, ettha nivisamānā nivisati.

Considerations regarding sights …
Rūpavicāro loke …
considerations regarding sounds …
saddavicāro loke …
considerations regarding smells …
gandhavicāro loke …
considerations regarding tastes …
rasavicāro loke …
considerations regarding touches …
phoṭṭhabbavicāro loke …
considerations regarding thoughts in the world seem nice and pleasant, and it is there that craving arises and settles.
dhammavicāro loke piyarūpaṃ sātarūpaṃ, etthesā taṇhā uppajjamānā uppajjati, ettha nivisamānā nivisati.

This is called the noble truth of the origin of suffering.
Idaṃ vuccati, bhikkhave, dukkhasamudayaṃ
ariyasaccaṃ.

https://suttacentral.net/dn22/en/sujato
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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frank k
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Re: auditing every single vitakka in the pali suttas

Post by frank k » Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:37 pm

every single reference to vitakka in DN and SN,
hyper linked to passage and sutta.

https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2 ... n-sn.html
https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2 ... dn-20.html
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frank k
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Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:55 pm

Re: auditing every single vitakka in the pali suttas

Post by frank k » Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:17 pm

https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2 ... here.html

All references to vitakka in AN anguttura nikaya (about 160 hits). All with hyperlinks that jump you directly to the sutta in question.

So AN, DN, MN, SN, are complete. Only KN remains.

Vitakka Judgement day is coming.
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frank k
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Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:55 pm

Re: auditing every single vitakka in the pali suttas

Post by frank k » Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:02 pm

KN completed, and all EBT pali niakaya suttas have been completed.
every.
single.
vitakka.
reference.
in pali + english,
straight from the buddha's mouth, not commentators after his death who spin new meanings into the words 'vitakka & vicara'.

It should not take more than 20 min to to a cursory read.

https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2 ... ttas.html
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