SN 48.40 pali errors corrected

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and texts.
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frank k
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SN 48.40 pali errors corrected

Post by frank k » Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:13 pm

https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2 ... pali.html

post contains pali & english of corrected and uncorrected versions.
Last edited by retrofuturist on Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: For more context on this topic, see Frank's post, a few posts down.
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auto
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Re: SN 48.40 pali errors corrected

Post by auto » Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:26 pm

can you write here in short peasant words what is wrong with sn 48.40 unless you want only you understand what you write.

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Volo
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Re: SN 48.40 pali errors corrected

Post by Volo » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:12 am

I find it so disrespectful to the other users that frank k always posts stuff without explaining what does he want to discuss. I don't think this forum is meant to serve as an RSS feed for his blog.

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DooDoot
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Re: SN 48.40 pali errors corrected

Post by DooDoot » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:56 am

Volo wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:12 am
I don't think this forum is meant to serve as an RSS feed for his blog.
The blog says:
SN 48.40 Corrected version, CST4 Pāli fixed

(somanassa-indriya [mental elation, pīti] ceases in 3rd jhāna)

(sukha-indriya [physical pleasure] ceases in 4th jhāna)
Since the coarsest feeling is 'pīti', it seems it would qualify better for sukha-indriya [physical pleasure].

The feature about pīti in meditation is it arises without any volition and, at least for the 1st time, unexpected. It seems it can hardly be regarded as "mental elation" because it arises before consciousness can even know it. Where as 'mental elation' generally occurs after an object has been pondered for a while; such as playing a game of sport and then winning. Genuine pīti is generally the 1st major insight into anatta; given it arises in an 'alien' manner.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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retrofuturist
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Re: SN 48.40 pali errors corrected

Post by retrofuturist » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:14 am

Greetings,
Volo wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:12 am
I find it so disrespectful to the other users that frank k always posts stuff without explaining what does he want to discuss. I don't think this forum is meant to serve as an RSS feed for his blog.
Agreed. If I'd seen this topic in time before people started responding to it, it would be closed. Frank has been informally warned about this, and hopefully he'll initiate a proper discussion upon his return.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

frank k
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Re: SN 48.40 pali errors corrected

Post by frank k » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:55 am

Sorry, let me be more clear. Originally, another user started a thread talking about SN 48.40 questioning its legitimacy (without SN 48.40) in the thread title. I posted an article link (from a scholar not me) comparing it to its agama counterparts, showing great disparity.
I then corrected the original pali sutta, with both original uncorrected and corrected version on the blog article so people can compare and dispute any error in my correction.
I started its own thread, because it contains the title "SN 48.40", the standard nomenclature for sutta references so in the future it's easy to turn up on forum topic search engines.

retrofuturist wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:14 am
Greetings,
Volo wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:12 am
I find it so disrespectful to the other users that frank k always posts stuff without explaining what does he want to discuss. I don't think this forum is meant to serve as an RSS feed for his blog.
Agreed. If I'd seen this topic in time before people started responding to it, it would be closed. Frank has been informally warned about this, and hopefully he'll initiate a proper discussion upon his return.

Metta,
Paul. :)
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Volo
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Re: SN 48.40 pali errors corrected

Post by Volo » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:51 pm

frank k wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:55 am
Sorry, let me be more clear. Originally, another user started a thread talking about SN 48.40 questioning its legitimacy (without SN 48.40) in the thread title. I posted an article link (from a scholar not me) comparing it to its agama counterparts, showing great disparity.
I then corrected the original pali sutta, with both original uncorrected and corrected version on the blog article so people can compare and dispute any error in my correction.
I started its own thread, because it contains the title "SN 48.40", the standard nomenclature for sutta references so in the future it's easy to turn up on forum topic search engines.
What do we suppose to understand about your corrections from the above? It's irrelevant what user opened what topic. If you start a new topic you should explain, what is your point. E.g. "Imo this sutta has the following errors: [....], here are my arguments: [....], here is what I would like to correct: [....]". We should be able to understand your points without reading your blog. I personally don't read your blog, because (in contrast to you) I respect others people right to post whatever they want on their private web resources.

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DooDoot
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Re: SN 48.40 pali errors corrected

Post by DooDoot » Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:03 pm

frank k wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:55 am
agama counterparts, showing great disparity.
It appears absurd to say Agama can correct Pali.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

frank k
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Re: SN 48.40 pali errors corrected

Post by frank k » Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:38 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:03 pm
frank k wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:55 am
agama counterparts, showing great disparity.
It appears absurd to say Agama can correct Pali.
It IS absurd to be a Pali bigot and not even make the minimal effort of due diligence to find out what Agamas are and what we can learn from them.
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DooDoot
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Re: SN 48.40 pali errors corrected

Post by DooDoot » Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:24 pm

frank k wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:38 pm
It IS absurd to be a Pali bigot and not even make the minimal effort of due diligence to find out what Agamas are and what we can learn from them.
Thanks but I am not a bigot. From every agama i have read i have learned they are sloppy representations of Buddha-Dhamma. If you want to have a proper discussion, merely post some agama of key suttas in a new topic (such as Anapanasati Sutta or Four Noble Truths or MN 117) and we can discuss them. Regards :smile:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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