16APS breath meditation, explicitly said for removing distractive external thoughts,

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frank k
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16APS breath meditation, explicitly said for removing distractive external thoughts,

Post by frank k » Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:49 am

I think Volo was the one having doubts about this, I ran into this passage today that gives an explicit answer.

KN Iti 85 a-subh-ānupassī: non-beautiful-conemplation
♦ 6. a-subh-ānupassī-suttaṃ (KN 4.85)
♦ 85. vuttañhetaṃ bhagavatā, vuttamarahatāti me sutaṃ --
§85. This was said by the Blessed One, said by the Arahant, so I have heard:
♦ “asubhānupassī, bhikkhave, kāyasmiṃ viharatha;
“Remain focused, monks, on foulness in the body.
ānāpānassati ca vo ajjhattaṃ parimukhaṃ sūpaṭṭhitā hotu;
Have mindfulness of in-&-out breathing well-established to the fore within you.
sabbasaṅkhāresu aniccānupassino viharatha.
Remain focused on the inconstancy of all fabrications.
asubhānupassīnaṃ, bhikkhave, kāyasmiṃ viharataṃ
For one who remains focused on the foulness of the body,
yo subhāya dhātuyā rāgānusayo so pahīyati VAR .
the obsession with passion for the property of beauty is abandoned.
ānāpānassatiyā ajjhattaṃ parimukhaṃ sūpaṭṭhititāya
For one who has mindfulness of in-&-out breathing well-established to the fore within oneself,
ye bāhirā vitakkāsayā vighātapakkhikā, te na honti.
annoying external thoughts & inclinations don’t exist.

sabbasaṅkhāresu aniccānupassīnaṃ viharataṃ
For one who remains focused on the inconstancy of all fabrications,
yā avijjā sā pahīyati,
ignorance is abandoned,
yā vijjā sā uppajjatī”ti.
clear knowing arises.”
etamatthaṃ bhagavā avoca. tatthetaṃ iti vuccati —
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Volo
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Re: 16APS breath meditation, explicitly said for removing distractive external thoughts,

Post by Volo » Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:13 am

Thanks. I will have a look into it.

sentinel
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Re: 16APS breath meditation, explicitly said for removing distractive external thoughts,

Post by sentinel » Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:01 am

frank k wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:49 am

For one who has mindfulness of in-&-out breathing well-established to the fore within oneself,
ye bāhirā vitakkāsayā vighātapakkhikā, te na honti.
annoying external thoughts & inclinations don’t exist.

sabbasaṅkhāresu aniccānupassīnaṃ viharataṃ
For one who remains focused on the inconstancy of all fabrications,
yā avijjā sā pahīyati,
ignorance is abandoned,
yā vijjā sā uppajjatī”ti.
clear knowing arises.”
etamatthaṃ bhagavā avoca. tatthetaṃ iti vuccati —
That is correct .
:buddha1:

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DooDoot
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Re: 16APS breath meditation, explicitly said for removing distractive external thoughts,

Post by DooDoot » Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:37 am

frank k wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:49 am
ānāpānassatiyā ajjhattaṃ parimukhaṃ sūpaṭṭhititāya
For one who has mindfulness of in-&-out breathing well-established to the fore within oneself,
ye bāhirā vitakkāsayā vighātapakkhikā, te na honti.
annoying external thoughts & inclinations don’t exist.
The above does not seem to explicitly say 16APS breath meditation is for removing distractive external thoughts; in the same way that taking medicine is for curing disease. The above appears to explicitly say for one who has mindfulness with in-&-out breathing well-established to the fore within oneself, annoying external thoughts & inclinations don’t exist. Sorry, but it seems explicitly clear in 16APS that annoying external thoughts & inclinations are removed prior to practise.

:smile:
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frank k
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Re: 16APS breath meditation, explicitly said for removing distractive external thoughts,

Post by frank k » Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:29 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:37 am
frank k wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:49 am
ānāpānassatiyā ajjhattaṃ parimukhaṃ sūpaṭṭhititāya
For one who has mindfulness of in-&-out breathing well-established to the fore within oneself,
ye bāhirā vitakkāsayā vighātapakkhikā, te na honti.
annoying external thoughts & inclinations don’t exist.
The above does not seem to explicitly say 16APS breath meditation is for removing distractive external thoughts; in the same way that taking medicine is for curing disease. The above appears to explicitly say for one who has mindfulness with in-&-out breathing well-established to the fore within oneself, annoying external thoughts & inclinations don’t exist. Sorry, but it seems explicitly clear in 16APS that annoying external thoughts & inclinations are removed prior to practise.

:smile:
by your same logic, (same sutta), there's no reason to do either asubha or anicca either. Because one has removed lust PRIOR to having practiced asubha.
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DooDoot
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Re: 16APS breath meditation, explicitly said for removing distractive external thoughts,

Post by DooDoot » Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:54 pm

frank k wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:29 pm
by your same logic, (same sutta), there's no reason to do either asubha or anicca either. Because one has removed lust PRIOR to having practiced asubha.
The above sounds irrelevant. Every step of 16APS includes knowing breathing; therefore there is no place for lust to arise, apart from a non-thinking underlying tendency. As for anicca, contemplating it ends the underlying tendency to lust.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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sunnat
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Re: 16APS breath meditation, explicitly said for removing distractive external thoughts,

Post by sunnat » Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:47 am

Here's a distracting thought: in training one is learning to keep the awareness steadfast to the area around the mouth. As a consequence there is naturally over time a detaching from thoughts. When the awareness is well established, then, thought cease. Unless, and until, then, not so much.

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