Discussion about early Gandharan manuscripts

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and texts.
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Kim OHara
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Discussion about early Gandharan manuscripts

Post by Kim OHara » Sun May 26, 2019 12:08 pm

The religious affairs unit of our national radio broadcaster aired an interview with Richard Allon about the earliest Buddhist manuscripts this evening (our time) and it will be available to listen or download for a while. I found it very interesting.
Allon is a researcher based at Sydney University and has been working on them for years.
https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/pr ... s/11146064

There's also an invitation to contribute to the crowdfunding of a publication project, a good opportunity for dana.

:namaste:
Kim

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Ceisiwr
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Re: Discussion about early Gandharan manuscripts

Post by Ceisiwr » Sun May 26, 2019 12:09 pm

Thanks for this

Terryw
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Re: Discussion about early Gandharan manuscripts

Post by Terryw » Fri May 31, 2019 11:52 am

Kim OHara wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 12:08 pm
The religious affairs unit of our national radio broadcaster aired an interview with Richard Allon
Thanks for the link.

I think this should be Mark Allon.

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Kim OHara
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Re: Discussion about early Gandharan manuscripts

Post by Kim OHara » Fri May 31, 2019 12:26 pm

Terryw wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 11:52 am
Kim OHara wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 12:08 pm
The religious affairs unit of our national radio broadcaster aired an interview with Richard Allon
Thanks for the link.

I think this should be Mark Allon.
You're right - sorry for the slip.

:namaste:
Kim

budo
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Re: Discussion about early Gandharan manuscripts

Post by budo » Fri May 31, 2019 12:31 pm

There has been translated Gandharan manuscripts but unfortunantly I can't find them freely available, only $90+ versions on amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/02959 ... bl_vppi_i0

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/02959 ... bl_vppi_i1

Anyone know where one can read english translations for free?

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Kim OHara
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Re: Discussion about early Gandharan manuscripts

Post by Kim OHara » Fri May 31, 2019 9:36 pm

I posted the OP on DWM as well as here, and a member there reminded me of a good article about the Gandharan manuscripts and their implications -
Wayfarer wrote: Mark Allon, not Richard. He's an associate of Richard Salomon, who's at one of the US universities, concentrating on the same field. See also Linda Heuman's article, Whose Buddhism is Truest? which gives an overview of the discovery of the Gandhari manuscripts. (Interesting trivia: the name of the Afghan province of Kandahar is a form of 'Gandhara'.)

Mark was my thesis supervisor for MA in Buddhist Studies 2011-12. A gentleman and a scholar. I will listen with interest.
:namaste:
Kim

budo
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Re: Discussion about early Gandharan manuscripts

Post by budo » Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:43 am

Kim OHara wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 9:36 pm
I posted the OP on DWM as well as here, and a member there reminded me of a good article about the Gandharan manuscripts and their implications -
Wayfarer wrote: Mark Allon, not Richard. He's an associate of Richard Salomon, who's at one of the US universities, concentrating on the same field. See also Linda Heuman's article, Whose Buddhism is Truest? which gives an overview of the discovery of the Gandhari manuscripts. (Interesting trivia: the name of the Afghan province of Kandahar is a form of 'Gandhara'.)

Mark was my thesis supervisor for MA in Buddhist Studies 2011-12. A gentleman and a scholar. I will listen with interest.
:namaste:
Kim
That article was 80% fluff noise and 20% information. Could have literally made it just one page without all the noise.

Better to just find online english translations.

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mikenz66
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Re: Discussion about early Gandharan manuscripts

Post by mikenz66 » Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:16 am


budo
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Re: Discussion about early Gandharan manuscripts

Post by budo » Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:39 pm

Very nice to see the 32 parts of the body connected with one pointedness, as I've always suspected, it's only concentration once there is one pointedness.
What is the concentration connected with perception of foulness? In regard to this, a monk who is at the root of a tree, or in an empty house, or in an open space, examines this very body, as it is placed, as it is disposed, upwards from the sole of the foot, surrounded by skin, downwards from the tip of the hair, full of impurity of various kinds. There is in this body: [followed by the 32 body parts]. It is the undistracted one-pointedness of mind of a person so positioned, which is called “the concentration connected with the perception of foulness.”
..
It is the undistracted one-pointedness of mind of a person so positioned, which is called “the concentration connected with the perception of the .. <insert subject>

and google preview https://books.google.com/books?id=cTmN8 ... &q&f=false

I was able to find some pdfs online as well, so I will post anything interesting

budo
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Re: Discussion about early Gandharan manuscripts

Post by budo » Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:54 pm

The Not Yours Sutra (*natuspahu-sutra)

[15] The setting is in Śavasti. [16] What, monks, is not yours, you should abandon that. When abandoned, that will be for [your] benefit and ease. (*Moreover, what is not yours?) Form is not yours, you should abandon that. When abandoned, that will be for [your] benefit and ease. [17] Feeling; perception; conditioned forces; perceptual consciousness are not yours, you should abandon them. (*When abandoned), that will be for [your] benefit and ease. “[It is] just as if [18] a person were to cut, or carry off, or (*burn, or) do as they need with, the grass, sticks, branches, leaves, and foliage in this Jea grove. Then what do you think? Would this occur to you?: [19] ‘This person cuts us, or carries us off, or burns us, or may do as he needs with us’?” “Indeed, this is not the case, (*Sir).” “Why is (*that)?” “[Because], this [Jea-grove], Sir, neither is the self, nor belongs to the self.” In the same way, you should abandon what is not [20] yours. When abandoned, it will be for [your] benefit and ease. (*In the same way,) form is not yours, you should abandon that. When abandoned, it will be for [your] benefit and ease. [21] Feelings; conception; conditioned forces; perceptual consciousness is 〈*not〉 yours, you should abandon that. When abandoned, it will be for [your] (*benefit and ease). This is what the Lord said.
The Full of Disgust Sutra (nivriabahulo-sutra)

22] The setting is in Śavasti. [23] For one having faith, Monks, for a noble son who has gone forth from the home to homelessness out of faith, this accords with the dharma: [24] That he should live full of disgust with respect to form: he should live (*full) of disgust with respect to feeling, perception, conditioned forces, and perceptual consciousness. Living full of disgust with respect to form, he fully understands form. [25] (*Living full) of disgust with respect to feeling, perception, conditioned forces, and perceptual consciousness, [he] fully understands perceptual consciousness. Fully understanding form, [26] fully understanding feeling, perception, conditioned forces, and perceptual consciousness, he is released from form, is released from feeling, perception, conditioned forces, [he] is released from perceptual consciousness, [27] [he] is released from birth, ageing, sickness and death, grief, lamentations, (*suffering, despair), and frustration. [He] is released from suffering, so I say. [27M] This is what the Lord said.
The Adze Handle Sutra (*vasija a-sutra) [28]

The Lord was staying in Śavasti. [29] “Monks, I say the destruction of the taints is for one who knows [and] sees, not for one who does not (*know [and] does not) see. I say the destruction of the taints is for one who knows how and sees how? To wit: [for one who knows] [30] “This is form, this is the arising of form, this is the (*passing away) of form; (*this) is feeling; this is perception; these are the conditioned forces; this is perceptual consciousness, this is the [31] arising of perceptual consciousness, this is the passing away of perceptual consciousness.” (*So) I say the destruction of the taints is for one (*who knows thus), who sees thus.” Then a certain [32] monk said this to the Lord. “You say the destruction of the taints is for one who knows thus, who sees thus. Then, why, in regard to this, is [33] the mind of some monks not liberated from the taints without clinging?” “It must be said, ‘due to (*its) non-cultivation.’” “Due to the non-cultivation of what?” “Due to the non-cultivation of the wholesome states.” “Of which wholesome states?” “Due to the non-cultivation of the four [34] foundations of mindfulness, of the four right strivings, of the (*four) bases of supernatural power, of the four meditations, of the five mental faculties, of the five powers, of the seven factors of awakening, [35] and of the Noble Eightfold Path—due to the non-cultivation of these wholesome states.” For a monk who [36] lives not engaged in meditation, moreover, this desire may arise thus: “Oh, may (*my) mind may be liberated from the taints without clinging!” But indeed his [37] mind is not liberated from the taints without clinging. “For what reason?” “It must be said, ‘due to (*its) non-cultivation’.” “Due to the non-cultivation of what?” “Due to the non-cultivation of the wholesome [38] states.” “Of which wholesome states?” “Due to the non-cultivation of the (*four) foundations of mindfulness, of the four right strivings, of the four bases of supernatural power, of [39] the four meditations, of the five mental faculties, of the five powers, of the (*seven) factors of awakening, and of the Noble Eightfold Path—due to the non-cultivation of [40] these wholesome states.”

[It is] just as if, a hen might have eight, ten, or twelve (*eggs). [And suppose] these [41] eggs were not properly sat upon by this hen day in and day out; were not properly incubated day in and day out; [42] were not properly nurtured day in and day out.

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mikenz66
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Re: Discussion about early Gandharan manuscripts

Post by mikenz66 » Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:21 pm

Hi Budo, thanks for posting the various extracts. Very helpful. Hopefully these will all turn up on SuttaCentral, with links to parallels. It's impressive how many parallels there are for some suttas...

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Mike

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Zom
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Re: Discussion about early Gandharan manuscripts

Post by Zom » Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:25 pm

It's impressive how many parallels there are for some suttas...
All 4 nikayas are parallelled here or there, so it is not surprising.

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