In search of articles

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and texts.
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khemindas
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In search of articles

Post by khemindas »

I wonder in English language how many monks are teaching against abhidhamma/Mahayana approach? It seems that is only Dhammavuddho bhikkhu, may be Sujato bhikkhu as well... If you know can you mention.them here and give llinks on their articles?

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Volo
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Re: In search of articles

Post by Volo »

What do you mean "against abhidhamma/Mahayana"? I think these two are completely different things.

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khemindas
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Re: In search of articles

Post by khemindas »

The true Dhamma is embodied in the discourses of the Buddha found in the earliest 4 Nikayas: are generally accepted by all schools of Buddhism to be the original Teachings of the Buddha, unlike other books (e.g. Mahayana Sutras, Abhidhamma, etc.) which are controversial because they contain some contradictions with the 4 Nikayas. The earliest 4 Nikayas are very consistent and contains the flavour of liberation from suffering.
https://www.budsas.org/ebud/ebdha163.htm

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DooDoot
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Re: In search of articles

Post by DooDoot »

khemindas wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:08 am
I wonder in English language how many monks are teaching against abhidhamma/Mahayana approach?
I can't imagine spending one's time teaching against abhidhamma/Mahayana. My impression is most monks just teach their understanding of Buddhism. For example, on this forum, there are unlearned & unpractised laymen who claim they protect the teachings. These laymen look pretty dumb, at least to me. Imagine monks teaching against other ideologies. It would even look worse; much more stupid (given a monk should exhibit harmony with the diversity of the world). For example, there are videos on You Tube of Bhikkhu Sujato criticising Goenka, Mahasi, etc. While he makes some good points, to many, he looks pretty dumb. There are comments on these videos criticising Sujato spending his time criticising other monks. It ends up looking like Christianity.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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frank k
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Re: In search of articles

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khemindas wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:08 am
I wonder in English language how many monks are teaching against abhidhamma/Mahayana approach? It seems that is only Dhammavuddho bhikkhu, may be Sujato bhikkhu as well... If you know can you mention.them here and give llinks on their articles?
https://www.buddhismuskunde.uni-hamburg ... layo.html

If you search for abdhidhamma within that list you should see some of his articles.
Also some articles on bodhisattva idea.

He's taken great care to say everything diplomatically, so if one isn't paying attention carefully and understanding what he's saying, you might not even know there's strong criticism implied/hinted at. (IMO)

Sujato wrote a book strongly critical of Abhdhamma
this one I believe
http://santifm.org/santipada/2010/the-m ... hidhamma/

I once asked Ven. Thanissaro in public about the official thai forest stance (from his lineage) was on Abhidhamma,
I was really disappointed in what he said. Story for another time. But I understand, an ordained Theravada bhikkhu is going to be careful about what they say publicly, versus what they think privately.

Please keep us up to date on your search and what else you find.
IMO it's high time people started being more transparent and open about criticizing sacred cows.
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budo
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Re: In search of articles

Post by budo »

khemindas wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:08 am
I wonder in English language how many monks are teaching against abhidhamma/Mahayana approach? It seems that is only Dhammavuddho bhikkhu, may be Sujato bhikkhu as well... If you know can you mention.them here and give llinks on their articles?
You can read Dhammavuddho's articles on his website https://vbgnet.org/english-articles/

The only monks which I am familiar with which teach the dhamma

- Dhammavuddho
- Analayo
- Thanissaro

I don't know Sujato well enough to comment, although I have read his agama translations.

Everyone else teaches vissuddhimagga and abhidhamma

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DooDoot
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Re: In search of articles

Post by DooDoot »

frank k wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:51 am
Sujato wrote a book strongly critical of Abhdhamma
this one I believe
http://santifm.org/santipada/2010/the-m ... hidhamma/
Sujato just wrote more unsubstantiated sectarianism:
We can trace the treat­ment of time in the ab­hid­hamma as an evo­lu­tion from these el­e­ments. In the ear­li­est strata of ab­hid­hamma lit­er­a­ture, the Sutta Exposition of the Vibhaṅga, we find the same se­ries of twelve links. But the next strata, the Abhidhamma Exposition, in­tro­duces many vari­a­tions by re­defin­ing the twelve links in ways never taught by the Buddha. The Sarvāstivāda Abhidharma de­vel­oped sim­i­lar ideas, and there too they were forced to re­de­fine the fac­tors to make them work. The main pur­pose seems to fur­ther psy­chol­o­gize the teach­ings by in­tro­duc­ing what has in mod­ern times be­come fa­mous as the ‘one life­time de­pen­dent orig­i­na­tion’. This is touted as a re­turn to the orig­i­nal psy­cho­log­i­cal teach­ings of the Buddha, free of the es­cha­to­log­i­cal per­spec­tive in­tro­duced by later sup­posed Brahmanical in­flu­ences. But as we have seen, the re­al­ity is just the op­po­site. It is the sut­tas which so strongly em­pha­size es­cha­tol­ogy – I can­not imag­ine what the Buddha could have done to em­pha­size it more. The Abhidhamma Pitaka, di­vorc­ing the psy­cho­log­i­cal teach­ings from their orig­i­nal es­cha­to­log­i­cal con­text, starts to de­velop a psy­chol­ogy for its own sake. Thus the mod­ern ‘one-lifers’ are re­ally just tak­ing the ab­hid­hamma pro­gram a step fur­ther, abol­ish­ing the role of re­birth al­to­gether.... the Suttas three life de­pen­dent orig­i­na­tion
eschatology
noun
the part of theology concerned with death, judgement, and the final destiny of the soul and of humankind.
It seems obvious the Buddha was not concerned with "eschatology"; that the Buddha was concerned with suffering & its cessation (MN 22).

Then Sujato appears to engage in sarcasm towards the Visuddimagga, even though the Visuddhimagga includes Sujato's three-life-time theory that Sujato claims (without any evidence) the Buddha taught:
Perhaps, gen­tle reader, you think I’m go­ing over the top. I wish, I re­ally do. But let us pe­ruse the hal­lowed pages of the Visuddhimagga, the Bible of the ab­hid­ham­mikas. That revered icon, in one of its more flam­boy­ant flour­ishes of ab­sur­dity, ac­tu­ally in­sists that Pali is the ‘root lan­guage of all lan­guages’, the ‘self-existent lan­guage’, hard-wired into the cir­cuitry of re­al­ity.4 It is a ster­ling tes­ta­ment to the Visuddhimagga’s faith in its own con­cep­tual ap­pa­ra­tus that it is will­ing to fol­low the im­pli­ca­tions of the sab­hāva the­ory through to their log­i­cal con­clu­sion, no mat­ter how lu­di­crous.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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