Sutta teachings about forgiveness

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and texts.
JohnK
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Re: Sutta teachings about forgiveness

Post by JohnK » Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:41 am

DooDoot wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:55 am
JohnK wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:32 pm
In case it is helpful here, coincidentally, I just became aware of this essay (right after glancing at this thread). It is Thanissaro Bhikkhu on the Buddha's teachings on animosity and forgiveness.
Thank you JK. Are there any quotes you might find compelling in the Venerable Thanissaro's essay you could kindly share with us? Please forgive my laziness although I am interested in which teaching you find compelling or most effective. Thanks :thanks:
It took a while to have a look at the essay (turns out it's only 3 pages!); here's some quotage:
When you forgive someone who’s wronged you, it doesn’t erase that person’s karma in having done wrong. This is why some people think that forgiveness has no place in the karmic universe of the Buddha’s teachings, and that it’s incompatible with the practice of what he taught. But that’s not so. Forgiveness may not be able to undo old bad kamma, but it can prevent new bad karma from being done. This is especially true with the bad kamma that in Pali is called vera. Vera is often translated as “hostility,” “animosity,” or “antagonism,” but it’s a particular instance of these attitudes: the vengeful animosity that wants to get back at someone for perceived wrongs. This attitude is what has no place in Buddhist practice... forgiveness is what puts an end to vera... there is the possibility that the other side will be inspired by your example to stop slinging mud...start by taking a look at where you try to find happiness. If you look for it in terms of power or material possessions, there will always be winning and losing...But if you define happiness in terms of the practice of merit -- giving, virtue, and meditation -- there's no need to create losers. Everyone wins. When you give, other people naturally gain...you gain a spacious sense of wealth within. When you're virtuous...you gain freedom from remorse...while others gain safety...victory over your own greed, aversion, and delusion is something that lasts. It's the only victory that creates no vera, so it's the only victory that's really safe and secure.
Oh, he does specifically quote Dhp 3-5:

“He
insulted me,
hit me,
beat me,
robbed me”
—for those who brood on this,
vera isn’t stilled.

“He insulted me,
hit me,
beat me,
robbed me”—
for those who don’t brood on this,
vera is stilled.

Veras aren’t stilled
through vera,
regardless.
Veras are stilled
through non-vera:
this, an unending truth. — Dhp 3–5
"...the practice is essentially a practice, and not a theory to be idly discussed...right view leaves unanswered many questions about the cosmos and the self, and directs your attention to what needs to be done to escape from the ravages of suffering." Thanissaro Bhikkhu, On The Path.

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DooDoot
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Re: Sutta teachings about forgiveness

Post by DooDoot » Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:16 pm

AgarikaJ wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:16 am
I am grappling with:
When Angulimala erased the kamma-vipaka, it was not done when he was a murderer but done when he was a monk (at a later time). Regardless, your post above is not something that ends suffering but something that increases suffering & self-delusion.

Take care, again. :heart:
Never ordained... not an anonymous-online-bhikkhu or ex-bhikkhu...

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Volovsky
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Re: Sutta teachings about forgiveness

Post by Volovsky » Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:13 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:58 am
From the 1000s of Pali suttas, which suttas are on the topic of "forgiveness"?
Would being "resentful" have connotations of "not forgiving"?
Others will be resentful; we shall not be resentful here’: effacement should be practised thus.

pare upanāhī bhavissanti, mayamettha anupanāhī bhavissāmā’ti

Upanāhin (adj. -- n.) [fr. upanāha] one who bears ill-will, grudging, grumbling, finding fault
MN 8

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Manopubbangama
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Re: Sutta teachings about forgiveness

Post by Manopubbangama » Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:41 pm

The entire story of Angulimala is very instructive.

I believe he was a part of some type of proto-shivaite-thuggee cult and collected body parts of murder victims.

When he became a monk this didn't mean the the community of victims necessarily forgave HIM, but he was taught to bear the hatred that he had earned in this lifetime.

JohnK
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Re: Sutta teachings about forgiveness

Post by JohnK » Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:20 pm

Manopubbangama wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:41 pm
The entire story of Angulimala is very instructive.

I believe he was a part of some type of proto-shivaite-thuggee cult and collected body parts of murder victims...
Here is the back story in brief from Great Disciples of the Buddha.
https://www.wisdompubs.org/book/great-disciples-buddha
His father sent him to Takkasila, a famous university where he soon became his teacher's favorite pupil. Fellow students were resentful and eventually convinced the teacher that he was out to get him. So his teacher demanded a gift -- a thousand fingers. Without the gift, he could not "graduate." The teacher probably assumed Angulimala ("Finger Garland" -- the name he received later) would be killed or put in jail and executed trying to collect the fingers -- no longer a threat to the teacher. He threaded the finger bones and wore them as a garland -- not by collecting them from corpses, but by killing. Then, the rest of the story. I just wanted to share the back story as I have read it.
"...the practice is essentially a practice, and not a theory to be idly discussed...right view leaves unanswered many questions about the cosmos and the self, and directs your attention to what needs to be done to escape from the ravages of suffering." Thanissaro Bhikkhu, On The Path.

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