Translating saññāmanasikārā

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and scriptures.
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Re: Translating saññāmanasikārā

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Kumara wrote: Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:40 am I've been pondering over this term: saññāmanasikārā

Bhikkhu Bodhi: perception and attention (From Connected Discourses of the Buddha, SN 40.1)
Ajahn Thanissaro: attention to perceptions (From https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html)

Would like to ask those who has researched into this for comments.

I'm post this under Early Buddhism because I want to just stick to understandings from the Suttas. Please leave out commentarial interpretations. Thanks.
you get the gist after reading the further example,

https://suttacentral.net/an9.34/en/sujato
While a mendicant is in such a meditation, should perceptions and attentions accompanied by sensual pleasures beset them, that’s an affliction for them. Suppose a happy person were to experience pain; that would be an affliction for them.

Suppose a happy person were to experience pain; that would be an affliction for them. In the same way, should perceptions and attentions accompanied by sensual pleasures beset them, that’s an affliction for them.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
If, as he remains there, he is beset with attention to perceptions dealing with sensuality, that is an affliction for him.

Just as pain arises as an affliction in a healthy person for his affliction, even so the attention to perceptions dealing with sensuality that beset the monk is an affliction for him.
sensual pleasure when it arises it demands your attention and you are perceptive over it.(i guess)

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
'Venerable Ananda, sir, we are householders who indulge in sensuality, delight in sensuality, enjoy sensuality, rejoice in sensuality. For us — indulging in sensuality, delighting in sensuality, enjoying sensuality, rejoicing in sensuality — renunciation seems like a sheer drop-off.
The thought occurred to me: 'What is the cause, what is the reason, why my heart doesn't leap up at renunciation, doesn't grow confident, steadfast, or firm, seeing it as peace?' Then the thought occurred to me: 'I haven't seen the drawback of sensual pleasures;
"So at a later time, having seen the drawback of sensual pleasures, I pursued that theme; having understood the reward of renunciation, I familiarized myself with it. My heart leaped up at renunciation, grew confident, steadfast, & firm, seeing it as peace. Then, quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful qualities, I entered & remained in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation.

"As I remained there, I was beset with attention to perceptions dealing with sensuality. That was an affliction for me. Just as pain arises as an affliction for a healthy person, even so the attention to perceptions dealing with sensuality that beset me was an affliction for me.
i think both translations doesn't show a reality(when presented without context or atleast example) when being healthy then the pain is itself(figurately) what demands attention. So it is when in jhana then 5 strings of sensuality are affliction while for a regular person they are not because they welcome it.
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Re: Translating saññāmanasikārā

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auto wrote: Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:55 pm i think both translations doesn't show a reality(when presented without context or atleast example) when being healthy then the pain is itself(figurately) what demands attention. So it is when in jhana then 5 strings of sensuality are affliction while for a regular person they are not because they welcome it.
I don't understand what you're saying.
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Re: Translating saññāmanasikārā

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Kumara wrote: Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:37 am
auto wrote: Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:55 pm i think both translations doesn't show a reality(when presented without context or atleast example) when being healthy then the pain is itself(figurately) what demands attention. So it is when in jhana then 5 strings of sensuality are affliction while for a regular person they are not because they welcome it.
I don't understand what you're saying.
For the healthy(happy) person, pain is an affliction. If you have toothache then doesn't the pain there demand your attention? (peeps even go take medicine)
So
When in jhana then you are like a healthy person, the sensuality from the senses is what demands attention(when that perception rises).
but
for an ordinary person the sensuality what rises from senses aren't seen as an affliction, they welcome it, like it, agree with it.

https://suttacentral.net/an9.34/en/sujato
First, take a mendicant who, quite secluded from sensual pleasures … enters and remains in the first absorption. While a mendicant is in such a meditation, should perceptions and attentions accompanied by sensual pleasures beset them, that’s an affliction for them.
Suppose a happy person were to experience pain; that would be an affliction for them. In the same way, should perceptions and attentions accompanied by sensual pleasures beset them, that’s an affliction for them.
Reverend, there are these five kinds of sensual stimulation. What five? Sights known by the eye that are likable, desirable, agreeable, pleasant, sensual, and arousing. Sounds known by the ear … Smells known by the nose … Tastes known by the tongue … Touches known by the body that are likable, desirable, agreeable, pleasant, sensual, and arousing. These are the five kinds of sensual stimulation. The pleasure and happiness that arise from these five kinds of sensual stimulation is called sensual pleasure.
I say pretty much word to word what is written in Sutta.
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Re: Translating saññāmanasikārā

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Back to the OP, how would you translate saññāmanasikārā?
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Re: Translating saññāmanasikārā

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Kumara wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:52 am Back to the OP, how would you translate saññāmanasikārā?
Sannamanasikara; It is sanna, and manasikara is what sanna is. Perception is manas and have action embedded into it. Like vedanamano, but vedana doesn't have action.

kāmasahagatā saññāmanasikārā; It is list of qualities for kama.

that techique i would use for now till i get better one.
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