Are there two types of satipaṭṭhāna; where one type has jhana?

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and texts.
LuisR
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Re: Are there two types of satipaṭṭhāna; where one type has jhana?

Post by LuisR » Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:00 pm

Had this been some random sutta I would understand, but this is about the Satipatthana Sutta. I was introduced to Buddhism through Mahayana but their theaching are scattered and all over the place and they have no complete canon that I am aware of, so it is sad to know the Suttas have been tampered with.
mikenz66 wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:37 pm
LuisR wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:08 pm
Sounds like Mahayana talk.
Not at all.

If we take a text-critical approach then comparisons between suttas and agamas from different schools indicated that there were variations in organisation of the nikayas, and within suttas. However, the meanings are quite consistent across the collections, so we can be reasonably confident that they reflect the understanding of the Dhamma reasonably soon after the passing away of the Buddha, and so, presumably, they are representative of the Dhamma that the Buddha taught. However, from this text-critical perspective, it would not be reasonable to say: "this is exactly what the Buddha spoke".

Of course there are other perspectives. One could take the view that the Theravada commentaries that indicate that the suttas are what was recited at the first council, that the Abhidhamma was taught to the Buddha's mother in Tavatimsa heaven and to Sariputta. And that the sutras and agamas of the other, schismatic, schools are unreliable. From that point of view the text-critical analysis is irrelevant.

Of course, some might argue that the latter view is similar to the view that the Mahayana sutras were spoken by the Buddha, and preserved by Nagas for centuries.

It is helpful to recognise that people with these different viewpoints are, in a sense, talking about "different Buddhas". See, for example: https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/bh ... ons/3466/5

For effective practice one needs confidence in the foundations of what one is practicing. How one gains this confidence depends on the individual, and I would be hesitant to recommend abandoning particular viewpoints just because they don't agree with some other type of analysis. For example, if one is a committed traditional Theravada practitioner, then worrying too much about text-critical analysis may not be helpful.

:heart:
Mike

LuisR
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Re: Are there two types of satipaṭṭhāna; where one type has jhana?

Post by LuisR » Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:18 am

Are you not Mahayana? If not then sorry...

As for the suttas, take it up with Ajahn Sujato.
Coëmgenu wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:14 pm
Ooooh sounds like an ad hom

Why don't u actually address the argument?

The Platform Sutra is a forgery. This scripture is not.

If we called all composites "forgeries" most of your Buddhavacana is gone.

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Coëmgenu
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Re: Are there two types of satipaṭṭhāna; where one type has jhana?

Post by Coëmgenu » Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:58 am

LuisR wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:18 am
Are you not Mahayana? If not then sorry...

As for the suttas, take it up with Ajahn Sujato.
Coëmgenu wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:14 pm
Ooooh sounds like an ad hom

Why don't u actually address the argument?

The Platform Sutra is a forgery. This scripture is not.

If we called all composites "forgeries" most of your Buddhavacana is gone.
Whether or not I am a Mahāyānika (incidentally, I am) isn't really related to whether or not that was an ad hom. My tastes in scriptures doesnt really effect whether or not some old Buddhist scriptures are composite creations.

Ven Sujato, in the thread on SuttaCentral, said that "calling it a forgery is too far".
Last edited by Coëmgenu on Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:00 am, edited 3 times in total.
世尊在靈山會上拈華示眾眾皆默然唯迦葉破顏微笑世尊云
The Lord dwelt at the Vulture Peak with the assembly and plucked a flower as a teaching. The myriad totality were silent, save for Kāśyapa, whose face cracked in a faint smile. The Lord spoke.
吾有正法眼藏涅槃妙心實相無相微妙法門不立文字教外別傳付囑摩訶迦葉。
I have the treasure of the true dharma eye, I have nirvāṇa as wondrous citta, I know signless dharmatā, the subtle dharma-gate, which is not standing on written word, which is external to scriptures, which is a special dispensation, which is entrusted to Mahākāśyapa.

नस्वातोनापिपरतोनद्वाभ्यांनाप्यहेतुतः

LuisR
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Re: Are there two types of satipaṭṭhāna; where one type has jhana?

Post by LuisR » Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:59 am

He did how ever say it was not authentic.

Slowlearner5
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Re: Are there two types of satipaṭṭhāna; where one type has jhana?

Post by Slowlearner5 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:03 pm

Hi, I understand that jhana can come and go in sleep or half sleep when lying down, or in meditation, or in technique which for me is a doing attachment. I understand that its appearance depends on the person but my understanding is that it is not anatta and not dharma and therefore might only somewhat be useful for purification and concentration.
Is jhana dependant on a body? Anatta and dharma are not.
What do you think?
Also time to differentiate these states, often used by neo enlightened authors, 'enlightenment' being a misnomer and almost opposite in meaning to emptines, from anatta and dharma. I wish some authority would make an official statement say from Mandalay to take care of these clever wordy characters taking too much attention from pure hearted beginners. It upsets me alot.
Yes I am new here and needed some help with definitions but the above still stands. By the way AB also has a video on sound of silence and the ringing in the ears. Ok there's alot of stuff out there that needs to be corrected. But no it hasn't been.

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