New book by Y. Karunadasa

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and texts.
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JohnK
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New book by Y. Karunadasa

Post by JohnK » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:20 pm

Any thoughts on this book?
The "praise" seems to be exclusively from academics although the blurb says for general readers AND scholars.
https://www.wisdompubs.org/book/early-b ... ngs/praise
I am not an academic and am not familiar with the author or his writing style.
"...the practice is essentially a practice, and not a theory to be idly discussed...right view leaves unanswered many questions about the cosmos and the self, and directs your attention to what needs to be done to escape from the ravages of suffering." Thanissaro Bhikkhu, On The Path.

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Javi
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Re: New book by Y. Karunadasa

Post by Javi » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:04 pm

Those are a lot of heavy hitters in Buddhist studies it seems, its making me want to buy it myself.

Also, not sure if it is a new book, or a new edition or printing. It seems like the book has been around for awhile

https://www.buddhistdoor.net/features/e ... d-practice

http://www.island.lk/index.php?page_cat ... tle=125274
Vayadhammā saṅkhārā appamādena sampādethā — All things decay and disappoint, it is through vigilance that you succeed — Mahāparinibbāna Sutta

Self-taught poverty is a help toward philosophy, for the things which philosophy attempts to teach by reasoning, poverty forces us to practice. — Diogenes of Sinope

I have seen all things that are done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and a chase after wind — Ecclesiastes 1.14

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salayatananirodha
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Re: New book by Y. Karunadasa

Post by salayatananirodha » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:18 am

Cool. Thanks for sharing!
16. 'In what has the world originated?' — so said the Yakkha Hemavata, — 'with what is the world intimate? by what is the world afflicted, after having grasped at what?' (167)

17. 'In six the world has originated, O Hemavata,' — so said Bhagavat, — 'with six it is intimate, by six the world is afflicted, after having grasped at six.' (168)

- Hemavatasutta


links:
https://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/index.htm
http://thaiforestwisdom.org/canonical-texts/
http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html

JohnK
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Re: New book by Y. Karunadasa

Post by JohnK » Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:32 pm

Javi wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:04 pm
not sure if it is a new book, or a new edition or printing. It seems like the book has been around for awhile
I received an email titled 'New Releases" which included a pitch for this book -- hence my post here.
However, it appears that you are probably right -- just a "new release" for Wisdom.
I did call them and left a message with the question; if I hear back with anything more than that, I'll post.
"...the practice is essentially a practice, and not a theory to be idly discussed...right view leaves unanswered many questions about the cosmos and the self, and directs your attention to what needs to be done to escape from the ravages of suffering." Thanissaro Bhikkhu, On The Path.

sphairos
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Re: New book by Y. Karunadasa

Post by sphairos » Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:30 am

I have the book, it's great. Something like a final say of a distinguished Sri Lankan Abhidhamma scholar on the topic of Early Buddhism ('s teachings).
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thomaslaw
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Re: New book by Y. Karunadasa

Post by thomaslaw » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:45 am

sphairos wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:30 am
I have the book, it's great. Something like a final say of a distinguished Sri Lankan Abhidhamma scholar on the topic of Early Buddhism ('s teachings).
The book is in fact based on the Pali texts on the topic of early Buddhist teachings.

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mikenz66
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Re: New book by Y. Karunadasa

Post by mikenz66 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:13 am

From the available preview: https://www.wisdompubs.org/book/early-b ... -teachings it looks like an excellent analysis of the suttas.

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Mike

sphairos
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Re: New book by Y. Karunadasa

Post by sphairos » Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:10 am

thomaslaw wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:45 am
sphairos wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:30 am
I have the book, it's great. Something like a final say of a distinguished Sri Lankan Abhidhamma scholar on the topic of Early Buddhism ('s teachings).
The book is in fact based on the Pali texts on the topic of early Buddhist teachings.
Why do you say that? Did I say something incorrectly ?
How good and wonderful are your days,
How true are your ways?

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mikenz66
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Re: New book by Y. Karunadasa

Post by mikenz66 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:00 am

Perhaps there was a misreading of what you posted:
sphairos wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:30 am
I have the book, it's great. Something like a final say of a distinguished Sri Lankan Abhidhamma scholar on the topic of Early Buddhism ('s teachings).
As you say, Prof Karunadasa is well known for his work on Abhidhamma, but this particular book concentrates on the Suttas. However, from what I can tell from the preview, he does give some insight into the connections between the Suttas and the Abhidhamma. It looks very interesting. Unfortunately, I can't quote it well as the preview is incomplete:
... citta an cetasika is not an Abhidhammic innovation. In one Buddhist discourse we read the perception and feeling are mental factors (cetasika dhamma) and that they are conjoined with consciousness (citta-patibaddha). [Ref 17] This shows that consciousness as that which constitutes the knowing or awareness of an object can never arise in its true separate condition. It always arises in immediate conjunction with mental factors, such as feeling, that perform more specialized tasks in the act of cognition.
Since I only have the preview, I'm not sure which sutta he's referring to in Ref 17. Presumably MN 44 https://suttacentral.net/mn44

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Mike

sphairos
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Re: New book by Y. Karunadasa

Post by sphairos » Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:12 pm

(Dear All, note, that you can get a cheap paperback by BPS, like I did. Browse Abebooks.com -- mine was just $13)

Dear Mike, I couldn't find your preview (where is it?), but I identified the page by the reference: it's page 55, chapter 5 "The Analysis of Mind". You are correct: it's MN 44.

Let me explain why I worded my take on the book the way I did:

The Preface (p. X, literally the second phrase of the book):

"The present volume takes up the position that the best way to understand the early Buddhist teachings is to understand them as a critical response to the binary opposition between two world-views: spiritual eternalism (sassatavAda) and materialist annihilationism (ucchedavAda)."

I expect you to agree wth me that that is a very unusual way of opening a scholarly inquiry into early Buddhist teachng(s). Most scholars would refrain from such straightforward and philosophical claims (which are in my personal view more than true , and I personally wrote the same in one of my articles). And that opening immediately gives out a philosopher's attitude, which you are to expect from a scholar whose famous themes are "Time and Space", "The Nominal and the Conceptual", "The Material Clusters", "Conditional Relations" (from his "The TheravAda Abhidhamma" and other works).

Then lets proceed to the first chapter (1. Some Preliminary Obseervations):

(p.4)

"The Dhamma is a conceptual, theoretical model which describes the nature of actuality through a series of propositons. We find this idea formally expressed in an Abhidhamma compendium when it says: It is by not going beyond concepts (pan~n~atti) that the nature of actuality has been presented," (Reference 13: Mohavicchedani. 266 ...) Here the term "concept" denotes both concept-as-naming (nAma-pan~n~ati) and concept-as-meaning (attha-pan~n~atti). (Reference 14: VisuddhimaggaTika. 225, Paramattha-Vinicchaya. V. 1066)"

Go further:

(p. 5)

"From the Buddhist perspective, therefore, wrongly hypostatized entities and objects of reification are nothing but conceptual constructs, logical abstractions , or pure denominations with no corresponding objective counterparts." Later goes Reference 18 to KathAvatthu ATThakathA.

(p.6)

"..."the nominative expression" (kattu-sAdhana) in Buddhist exegesis, gives rise to the false notion that corresponding to the grammatical subject there is an ontological concept as well. An example given in this in this connection is: "cognition arises" (vin~n~aNaM vijAnAti). This kind of definition is made by superimposing a distinction on where there is no such distinction (abhede bhede-parikappanA)..." At the end the reference 20 follows: AbhidhammathavikAsinI. 156.

(p. 7)

"if... one were to say "the five aggregates eat" (khandhA bhun~jAti), instead of saying "a person eats," "a person walks," such a situaton would result in "breach of convention" (vohAra-bheda), leading to a breakdown of meaningful communication."" Reference 22, SaMyutta ATThakathA I 51.

(p. 9)

"Here we find an instance of inferential (inductive) knowledge (anvaye n~ANa), which is one of the means of knowledge recognized in Early Buddhist epistemology (Refernence 30 : DIgha and other texts, icluding VibhaNga of Abhidhamma). Having first understood the fact of suffering and its cause? in the immediate present, through personal verification, one draws and inference (nayaM neti) with regard to the future as follows:"

While some chapters are devoted mainly to the NikAya material, each chapter that deals with "philosophical problems" includes complex Abhidhammic and commentarial concepts.

And that is great, because it allows us to understand the depth of NikAyas.
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mikenz66
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Re: New book by Y. Karunadasa

Post by mikenz66 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:50 pm

sphairos wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:12 pm
Dear Mike, I couldn't find your preview (where is it?), but I identified the page by the reference: it's page 55, chapter 5 "The Analysis of Mind". You are correct: it's MN 44.
Hi, The preview link is at the bottom of this page: https://www.wisdompubs.org/book/early-b ... -teachings and Amazon also has a preview.

Thank you for your summary. From skimming the previews it looks very good. Parts of it seemed similar to some of Ven Nananada's analysis of nama-rupa and so on.

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Mike

sphairos
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Re: New book by Y. Karunadasa

Post by sphairos » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:28 am

mikenz66 wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:50 pm
sphairos wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:12 pm
Dear Mike, I couldn't find your preview (where is it?), but I identified the page by the reference: it's page 55, chapter 5 "The Analysis of Mind". You are correct: it's MN 44.
Hi, The preview link is at the bottom of this page: https://www.wisdompubs.org/book/early-b ... -teachings and Amazon also has a preview.

Thank you for your summary. From skimming the previews it looks very good. Parts of it seemed similar to some of Ven Nananada's analysis of nama-rupa and so on.

:heart:
Mike
Most welcome. :anjali:
How good and wonderful are your days,
How true are your ways?

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Polar Bear
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Re: New book by Y. Karunadasa

Post by Polar Bear » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:29 am

The book is available for $9.95 from Pariyatti here: https://store.pariyatti.org/Early-Buddh ... _4988.html

:anjali:
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

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