MN 43: What is meaning by "his faculties are exceptionally clear"?

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and texts.
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Re: MN 43: What is meaning by "his faculties are exceptionally clear"?

Post by pegembara » Sun Sep 16, 2018 1:09 pm

Saññā Vedayita Nirodha = Cessation of perception and feeling

And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

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Re: MN 43: What is meaning by "his faculties are exceptionally clear"?

Post by thomaslaw » Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:27 am

James Tan wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:03 am
DooDoot wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:42 am

James Tan wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:51 am
1. What is meant by the phrase: "his faculties are exceptionally clear"?

Purified , Cleansed , Calmed.

2. Are these "faculties" mental faculties, spiritual faculties or physical faculties?


3. Are these "faculties" conscious or unconscious in nirodha-samāpatti?

It is in suspended state . Consciousness operating in passive mode .

4. Can consciousness arise without perception & feeling?

Can. Only the feeling perception suspended .
Thank you James. Since MN 43 refers to the five physical sense organs, yes, the faculties are probably the physical sense organs. Although the physical sense organs are probably not active, the purification of the mind probably makes the physical sense organs purified and cleaned. However, I think some suttas (such as MN 43; MN 38; SN 22.53) seem to say consciousness cannot arise without feeling & perception.

Regards :smile:
Could you give some examples of what feeling is ? Do you think "non" perception is a perception also ?
Note: The expression "... faculties are ... clear" in connection with meditative state is not present in the Chinese version according to Mun-keat Choong. See p. 74, note 32 in his article "A comparison of the Chinese and Pāli Saṃyukta/Saṃyuttas on the Venerable Mahā-Maudgalyāyana (Mahā-Moggallāna)", in Buddhist Studies Review, v. 34.1 (2017), pp. 67-84.

However, in note 31 of the article it indicates a reviewer's comment: 'It is surely not about his "complexion", i.e. the physical state of his skin, but about the fact that his face looks relaxed and he looks alert. I think this kind of expression is relatively common in Pali Suttas.'.

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Re: MN 43: What is meaning by "his faculties are exceptionally clear"?

Post by Kurplunk » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:26 pm

vinnana seems generally regarded as something 'neutral', i.e., it can arise with suffering or can arise without suffering
I don't understand your point here. Sure, an arahant can still have sense experience. That vinnana without suffering is different from an awareness without an object to be aware of though; so I do not understand how this 'neutrality of vinnana' is related to whether or not there is an awareness in nirodha samapatti.

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