the arising and passing is impermanence
feelings arise, change, cease
perception arises, changes, ceases
No man, there is a path leading to cessation of these things. Seeing that feelings change is normal, everybody knows and accepts this however experience of the non-arising of these phenomena is an entirely different and superhuman knowledge...
The Buddhas discover a Path to cessation of conditioned phenomena and attain the Highest Happiness, the unexcelled security. Relying on this attainment mind completely loses interest in the conditioned phenomena and becomes disenchanted with suffering. Without relying on this path destruction of cankers is impossible."Now, as long as I did not have direct knowledge of the fourfold round with regard to these five clinging-aggregates, I did not claim to have directly awakened to the unexcelled right self-awakening in this cosmos with its devas, Maras, & Brahmas, in this generation with its brahmans & contemplatives, its royalty & common people. But when I did have direct knowledge of the fourfold round with regard to these five clinging-aggregates, then I did claim to have directly awakened to the unexcelled right self-awakening in this cosmos with its devas, Maras, & Brahmas, in this generation with its brahmans & contemplatives, its royalty & common people.
"The fourfold round in what way? I had direct knowledge of form... of the origination of form... of the cessation of form... of the path of practice leading to the cessation of form.
"I had direct knowledge of feeling...
"I had direct knowledge of perception...
"I had direct knowledge of fabrications...
"I had direct knowledge of consciousness... of the origination of consciousness... of the cessation of consciousness... of the path of practice leading to the cessation of consciousness.
well if you mean cessation of feeling by relying on the 8FNP, the attainment of highest happiness where there is no arising of feeling then you are correct.
If you don't mean that by "arising and passing" then i am not sure what you mean.And what, Ananda, is another pleasure more extreme & refined than that? There is the case where a monk, with the complete transcending of the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception, enters & remains in the cessation of perception & feeling. This is another pleasure more extreme & refined than that. Now it's possible, Ananda, that some wanderers of other persuasions might say, 'Gotama the contemplative speaks of the cessation of perception & feeling and yet describes it as pleasure. What is this? How can this be?' When they say that, they are to be told, 'It's not the case, friends, that the Blessed One describes only pleasant feeling as included under pleasure. Wherever pleasure is found, in whatever terms, the Blessed One describes it as pleasure.'"
Well as i understand it you think that just by understanding that feelings are impermanent the mind can turn away from wanting feeling and lose interest in even celestial existence without ever knowing anything better than existence as in experiencing the non-arising of feeling?
Yes i accept that we can intellectually understand that feeling is not all that desirable as is illustrated by your analogy.
It is so that i do not deny but this does not transcend feeling. Imagine this thought experiment;
The Tathagata taught the facts of reality as you say but he also taught of a beyond
The person who
Has gone beyond faith,
Knows the Unmade,
Has severed the link,
Destroyed the potential for rebirth,
And eliminated clinging
Is the ultimate person.
Nibbāna Sutta: Unbinding (3)
I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying near Sāvatthī at Jeta's Grove, Anāthapiṇḍika's monastery. And on that occasion the Blessed One was instructing, urging, rousing, & encouraging the monks with Dhamma-talk concerned with unbinding. The monks — receptive, attentive, focusing their entire awareness, lending ear — listened to the Dhamma.
Then, on realizing the significance of that, the Blessed One on that occasion exclaimed:
There is, monks, an unborn — unbecome — unmade — unfabricated. If there were not that unborn — unbecome — unmade — unfabricated, there would not be the case that escape from the born — become — made — fabricated would be discerned. But precisely because there is an unborn — unbecome — unmade — unfabricated, escape from the born — become — made — fabricated is discerned.
When you develop it to the point of consumation you will know the Deathless which is Unbinding and will know the Unmade. Mere thinking about impermanence is not enough.62. Perceptions (2)
“Bhikkhus, these five perceptions, when developed and cultivated, are of great fruit and benefit, culminating in the deathless, having the deathless as their consummation. What five? The perception of impermanence, the perception of non-self, the perception of death, the perception of the repulsiveness of food, and the perception of non-delight in the entire world.
These five perceptions, when developed and cultivated, are of great fruit and benefit, culminating in the deathless, having the deathless as their consummation.”
Attaining the Deathless is the goal not the development of the perception. You are confusing the means with the goal.“The destruction of lust, the destruction of hatred, the destruction of delusion: this is called the Deathless. This Noble Eightfold Path is the path leading to the Deathless; that is, right view … right concentration.”
From the cessation of contact comes the cessation of feeling. And just this noble eightfold path is the path of practice leading to the cessation of feeling...
“The destruction of lust, the destruction of hatred, the destruction of delusion: this is called the Deathless. This Noble Eightfold Path is the path leading to the Deathless; that is, right view … right concentration.”
Then Ven. Assaji gave this Dhamma exposition to Sariputta the Wanderer:
Whatever phenomena arise from cause:
& their cessation.
Such is the teaching of the Tathagata,
the Great Contemplative.
Then to Sariputta the wanderer, as he heard this Dhamma exposition, there arose the dustless, stainless Dhamma eye: "Whatever is subject to origination is all subject to cessation."
Even if just this is the Dhamma,
you have penetrated
to the Sorrowless (asoka) State
unseen, overlooked (by us)
for many myriads of aeons.
Then Sariputta the wanderer went to Moggallana the wanderer. Moggallana the wanderer saw him coming from afar and, on seeing him, said, "Bright are your faculties, my friend; pure your complexion, and clear. Could it be that you have attained the Deathless?"
"Yes, my friend, I have attained the Deathless. "
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