How to understand AN 9.34 (my explanation).

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and texts.
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DooDoot
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Re: How to understand AN 9.34 (my explanation).

Post by DooDoot » Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:34 am

Pondera wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:19 am
If Nibbana is the end of suffering, how is it that Arahants and Buddhas continue to suffer after destroying their asavas?
I never read or heard that Arahants suffer (although the feel painful feelings without suffering). Best wishes. :meditate:

James Tan
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Re: How to understand AN 9.34 (my explanation).

Post by James Tan » Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:28 am

DooDoot wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:34 am
Pondera wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:19 am
If Nibbana is the end of suffering, how is it that Arahants and Buddhas continue to suffer after destroying their asavas?
I never read or heard that Arahants suffer (although the feel painful feelings without suffering). Best wishes. :meditate:
You have to define first noble truth .
Is it including birth aging sickness death ?
The four noble truths Must including ordinary people whom suffered physically .
Otherwise , it is not called Four Noble Truth .
Therefore , it seems physical pains is also a kind of suffering .
:reading:

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Pondera
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Re: How to understand AN 9.34 (my explanation).

Post by Pondera » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:50 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:34 am
Pondera wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:19 am
If Nibbana is the end of suffering, how is it that Arahants and Buddhas continue to suffer after destroying their asavas?
I never read or heard that Arahants suffer (although the feel painful feelings without suffering). Best wishes. :meditate:
Pain without suffering? Okay. We’ll end it there. Apparently you haven’t heard of an Arahant taking his own life to end the suffering of an illness. These occurrences are found in the suttas. But that’s fine. We’ll end it there. Agree to disagree.
Four simple meditations on earth, water, fire, and wind - leading to tranquility and pleasure, equanimity and peacehttps://drive.google.com/file/d/1G3qI6G ... sp=sharing

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Pondera
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Re: How to understand AN 9.34 (my explanation).

Post by Pondera » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:52 pm

James Tan wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:28 am
DooDoot wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:34 am
Pondera wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:19 am
If Nibbana is the end of suffering, how is it that Arahants and Buddhas continue to suffer after destroying their asavas?
I never read or heard that Arahants suffer (although the feel painful feelings without suffering). Best wishes. :meditate:
You have to define first noble truth .
Is it including birth aging sickness death ?
The four noble truths Must including ordinary people whom suffered physically .
Otherwise , it is not called Four Noble Truth .
Therefore , it seems physical pains is also a kind of suffering .
Naturally. I would follow the suttas where they state that “in short the truth of suffering includes the five clinging aggregates.”
Four simple meditations on earth, water, fire, and wind - leading to tranquility and pleasure, equanimity and peacehttps://drive.google.com/file/d/1G3qI6G ... sp=sharing

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Pondera
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Re: How to understand AN 9.34 (my explanation).

Post by Pondera » Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:02 am

DooDoot wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:34 am
Pondera wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:19 am
If Nibbana is the end of suffering, how is it that Arahants and Buddhas continue to suffer after destroying their asavas?
I never read or heard that Arahants suffer (although the feel painful feelings without suffering). Best wishes. :meditate:
So the Blessed One, putting on his robe and taking up his bowl & outer robe, went together with a community of monks to the reception hall. On arrival he washed his feet, entered the hall, and sat with his back to the central post, facing east. The community of monks washed their feet, entered the hall, and sat with their backs to the western wall, facing east, ranged around the Blessed One. The Kapilavatthu Sakyans washed their feet, entered the hall, and sat with their backs to the eastern wall, facing west, ranged around the Blessed One. Then the Blessed One — having spent most of the night instructing, urging, rousing, & encouraging the Kapilavatthu Sakyans with a Dhamma talk — said to Ven. Ananda, "Ananda, speak to the Kapilavatthu Sakyans about the person who follows the practice for one in training. [2] My back aches. I will rest it."
Does this not sound as if the Buddha is suffering from a sore back?
Four simple meditations on earth, water, fire, and wind - leading to tranquility and pleasure, equanimity and peacehttps://drive.google.com/file/d/1G3qI6G ... sp=sharing

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Pondera
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Re: How to understand AN 9.34 (my explanation).

Post by Pondera » Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:12 am

DooDoot wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:34 am
Pondera wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:19 am
If Nibbana is the end of suffering, how is it that Arahants and Buddhas continue to suffer after destroying their asavas?
I never read or heard that Arahants suffer (although the feel painful feelings without suffering). Best wishes. :meditate:
In response to the above:
"Now I am frail, Ananda, old, aged, far gone in years. This is my eightieth year, and my life is spent. Even as an old cart, Ananda, is held together with much difficulty, so the body of the Tathagata is kept going only with supports. It is, Ananda, only when the Tathagata, disregarding external objects, with the cessation of certain feelings, attains to and abides in the signless concentration of mind, [19] that his body is more comfortable.
Is this not the exclamation of a man who is suffering? The Buddha himself claims to “attain and abide in the signless...” “...with the cessation of certain feelings”.

Here again are two things that you fail to see. Arahants and Buddhas suffer though they have destroyed the asavas. The cessation of feeling and perception is the true end of suffering.
Four simple meditations on earth, water, fire, and wind - leading to tranquility and pleasure, equanimity and peacehttps://drive.google.com/file/d/1G3qI6G ... sp=sharing

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cappuccino
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Re: How to understand AN 9.34 (my explanation).

Post by cappuccino » Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:40 am

Life is difficult.

Nirvana is lack of difficulty.

The difficulty of the living and the dead.

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Pondera
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Re: How to understand AN 9.34 (my explanation).

Post by Pondera » Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:01 am

Pondera wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:52 pm
James Tan wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:28 am
DooDoot wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:34 am

I never read or heard that Arahants suffer (although the feel painful feelings without suffering). Best wishes. :meditate:
You have to define first noble truth .
Is it including birth aging sickness death ?
The four noble truths Must including ordinary people whom suffered physically .
Otherwise , it is not called Four Noble Truth .
Therefore , it seems physical pains is also a kind of suffering .
Naturally. I would follow the suttas where they state that “in short the truth of suffering includes the five clinging aggregates.”
Apologies. I thought you were addressing me.

:namaste:
Four simple meditations on earth, water, fire, and wind - leading to tranquility and pleasure, equanimity and peacehttps://drive.google.com/file/d/1G3qI6G ... sp=sharing

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