Kamabhu Sutta: With Kamabhu (2)(On the Cessation of Perception & Feeling and it's commentary;
Kamabhu Sutta: With Kamabhu (2)
(On the Cessation of Perception & Feeling)
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
...
"When a monk has emerged from the cessation of perception & feeling, three contacts make contact: contact with emptiness, contact with the signless, & contact with the undirected."[3]
"Very good, venerable sir." And, delighting in and approving of Ven. Kamabhu's answer, Citta asked him a further question: "When a monk has emerged from the cessation of perception & feeling, to what does his mind lean, to what does it tend, to what does it incline?"
"When a monk has emerged from the cessation of perception & feeling, his mind leans to seclusion, tends to seclusion, inclines to seclusion."[4]
"Very good, venerable sir." And, delighting in and approving of Ven. Kamabhu's answer, Citta asked him a further question: "How many mental qualities are of great help in the attainment of the cessation of perception & feeling?"
"Actually, householder, you have asked last what should have been asked first. Nevertheless, I will answer you. Two qualities are of great help in the attainment of the cessation of perception & feeling: tranquillity & insight."[5]
Notes
1.
According to SN 36.11, verbal fabrication grows still on attaining the second jhana; bodily fabrication grows still on attaining the fourth jhana; mental fabrication grows still on attaining the cessation of perception & feeling.
2.
This question and answer are not included in MN 44.
3.
Emptiness, the signless, & the undirected are names for a state of concentration that lies on the threshold of Unbinding. They differ only in how they are approached. According to the commentary, they color one's first apprehension of Unbinding: a meditator who has been focusing on the theme of inconstancy will first apprehend Unbinding as signless; one who has been focusing on the theme of stress will first apprehend it as undirected; one who has been focusing on the theme of not-self will first apprehend it as emptiness.
4.
According to the commentary, "seclusion" here stands for Unbinding. On emerging from the cessation of perception & feeling, and having had contact with emptiness/the signless/the undirected, the mind inclines naturally to a direct experience of Unbinding.
5.
This question and answer are also not included in MN 44.
So when OP says ;
DooDoot wrote: ↑Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:57 pm
Nibbana is not:
1. Cessation of perception & feeling
That's it. The wrong view that AN 9.34 says Nibbana is the cessation of feeling is a wrong view.
It is not clear what he means and probably puts him in contradiction with the commentators above because they say that the attainment of cessation of perception&feeling lies on the treshold of Unbinding
Furthermore;
DooDoot wrote: ↑Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:57 pm The unconditioned element is defined as the absence of defilement (rather than the absence of feeling).
And what is the unconditioned?
The ending of greed, hate, and delusion.
SN 43.12
What is the deathless?
The ending of greed, hate, and delusion.
SN 45.7
Doot's interpretation does not make sense because these passages do not explicitly state abscence of defilement, they say ending of greed, hate, and delusion rather than abscence of it. This is a crucial difference and is evident from the below passage which show that Deathless is attained by non-arahants which would be impossible with Doot's interpretation;
Then Ven. Assaji gave this Dhamma exposition to Sariputta the Wanderer:
Whatever phenomena arise from cause:
their cause
& their cessation.
Such is the teaching of the Tathagata,
the Great Contemplative.
Then to Sariputta the wanderer, as he heard this Dhamma exposition, there arose the dustless, stainless Dhamma eye: "Whatever is subject to origination is all subject to cessation."
Even if just this is the Dhamma,
you have penetrated
to the Sorrowless (asoka) State
unseen, overlooked (by us)
for many myriads of aeons.
Then Sariputta the wanderer went to Moggallana the wanderer. Moggallana the wanderer saw him coming from afar and, on seeing him, said, "Bright are your faculties, my friend; pure your complexion, and clear. Could it be that you have attained the Deathless?"
"Yes, my friend, I have attained the Deathless. "
and here is a passage equating The Deathless to Unbinding;
"And what is the noble search? There is the case where a person, himself being subject to birth, seeing the drawbacks of birth, seeks the unborn, unexcelled rest from the yoke: Unbinding. Himself being subject to aging... illness... death... sorrow... defilement, seeing the drawbacks of aging... illness... death... sorrow... defilement, seeks the aging-less, illness-less, deathless, sorrow-less, undefiled, unexcelled rest from the yoke: Unbinding. This is the noble search.
“Whatever exists therein of material form, feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness, he sees those states as impermanent, as suffering, as a disease, as a tumour, as a barb, as a calamity, as an affliction, as alien, as disintegrating, as void, as not self. He turns his mind away from those states [436] and directs it towards the deathless element thus: ‘This is the peaceful, this is the sublime, that is, the stilling of all formations, the relinquishing of all attachments, the destruction of craving, dispassion, cessation, Nibbāna.’