Looking for information re: earliness & occurrence in various canons of specific doctrine

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and scriptures.
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dylanj
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Looking for information re: earliness & occurrence in various canons of specific doctrine

Post by dylanj »

the doctrine is the 32 marks of a great man
Born, become, arisen – made, prepared, short-lived
Bonded by decay and death – a nest for sickness, perishable
Produced by seeking nutriment – not fit to take delight in


Departure from this is peaceful – beyond reasoning and enduring
Unborn, unarisen – free from sorrow and stain
Ceasing of all factors of suffering – stilling of all preparations is bliss
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dylanj
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Re: Looking for information re: earliness & occurrence in various canons of specific doctrine

Post by dylanj »

bump
Born, become, arisen – made, prepared, short-lived
Bonded by decay and death – a nest for sickness, perishable
Produced by seeking nutriment – not fit to take delight in


Departure from this is peaceful – beyond reasoning and enduring
Unborn, unarisen – free from sorrow and stain
Ceasing of all factors of suffering – stilling of all preparations is bliss
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Kim OHara
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Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Looking for information re: earliness & occurrence in various canons of specific doctrine

Post by Kim OHara »

You've seen this thread?
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1270

:coffee:
Kim
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dylanj
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Re: Looking for information re: earliness & occurrence in various canons of specific doctrine

Post by dylanj »

Kim OHara wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:13 pm You've seen this thread?
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1270

:coffee:
Kim
Yes, I made a new one because that thread seems to be focused on whether the doctrine should be accepted as true or not, whereas I want to know what historical-textual evidence there is for its authenticity.
Born, become, arisen – made, prepared, short-lived
Bonded by decay and death – a nest for sickness, perishable
Produced by seeking nutriment – not fit to take delight in


Departure from this is peaceful – beyond reasoning and enduring
Unborn, unarisen – free from sorrow and stain
Ceasing of all factors of suffering – stilling of all preparations is bliss
User avatar
Kim OHara
Posts: 5584
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Looking for information re: earliness & occurrence in various canons of specific doctrine

Post by Kim OHara »

dylanj wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:18 pm
Kim OHara wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:13 pm You've seen this thread?
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1270

:coffee:
Kim
Yes, I made a new one because that thread seems to be focused on whether the doctrine should be accepted as true or not, whereas I want to know what historical-textual evidence there is for its authenticity.
I think that's still the best place for your question, since those are the members most interested in the doctrine. Your call, though.

:coffee:
Kim
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dylanj
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Re: Looking for information re: earliness & occurrence in various canons of specific doctrine

Post by dylanj »

oh well it is in the early buddhism subforum...

:thanks:
Born, become, arisen – made, prepared, short-lived
Bonded by decay and death – a nest for sickness, perishable
Produced by seeking nutriment – not fit to take delight in


Departure from this is peaceful – beyond reasoning and enduring
Unborn, unarisen – free from sorrow and stain
Ceasing of all factors of suffering – stilling of all preparations is bliss
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Aloka
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Re: Looking for information re: earliness & occurrence in various canons of specific doctrine

Post by Aloka »

dylanj wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:27 am the doctrine is the 32 marks of a great man
This article by Ajahn Sujato of Sutta Central website might be helpful:

https://sujato.wordpress.com/2011/04/06 ... -32-marks/


:anjali:
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Coëmgenu
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Re: Looking for information re: earliness & occurrence in various canons of specific doctrine

Post by Coëmgenu »

dylanj wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:27 am the doctrine is the 32 marks of a great man
MA 59, T 1670B2.54, EA 43.2, T 132, SA 2.97, T 76, MA 161, T 129, DA 20, EA 24.2, EA 48.3, DA 1, EA 33.2.

The list goes on much longer than that. All of the above using SuttaCentral's citation system so that they can be easily searched (i.e. no Taishō citations). The 32 marks is 三十二相. You can find the above list by searching 三十二相 in quotation marks (make sure you are searching for specifically Chinese Buddhavacana) on SuttaCentral.

Many of the texts are not translated. The ones that are and are free-to-access as afaik SA-2 97, DA 1, DA 20, EA 10.3 (note: this link leads to a French translation, if you read it that is great, if you do not, GoogleTranslate is much more capable of rendering French --> English than Middle Chinese --> English, if all else fails, to at least get the general jyst), & EA 20.3.

For SA-2 97, look up Ven Anālayo's BDK translation. It used to be free online & hosted at SuttaCentral before the published rescinded on their agreement. Free copies might still be floating around cyberspace.

Ven Anālayo is currently working on a translation of DA. Until then, one has Icihmura Sensei's two volumes available. You can find the relevant āgamāḥ therein.

As many before have noted, mention of the 32 marks is interwoven with the earliest strata of suggested historical Buddhavacana, along with contradicting material that implies that the Buddha has a more-or-less 'normal' appearance. This is one of the things that makes EBT studies fascinating.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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