Looking for information re: earliness & occurrence in various canons of specific doctrine

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and texts.
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dylanj
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Looking for information re: earliness & occurrence in various canons of specific doctrine

Post by dylanj » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:27 am

the doctrine is the 32 marks of a great man
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all assets, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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dylanj
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Re: Looking for information re: earliness & occurrence in various canons of specific doctrine

Post by dylanj » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:13 am

bump
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all assets, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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Kim OHara
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Re: Looking for information re: earliness & occurrence in various canons of specific doctrine

Post by Kim OHara » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:13 pm

You've seen this thread?
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1270

:coffee:
Kim

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dylanj
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Re: Looking for information re: earliness & occurrence in various canons of specific doctrine

Post by dylanj » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:18 pm

Kim OHara wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:13 pm
You've seen this thread?
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1270

:coffee:
Kim
Yes, I made a new one because that thread seems to be focused on whether the doctrine should be accepted as true or not, whereas I want to know what historical-textual evidence there is for its authenticity.
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all assets, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

User avatar
Kim OHara
Posts: 5016
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Looking for information re: earliness & occurrence in various canons of specific doctrine

Post by Kim OHara » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:47 pm

dylanj wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:18 pm
Kim OHara wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:13 pm
You've seen this thread?
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1270

:coffee:
Kim
Yes, I made a new one because that thread seems to be focused on whether the doctrine should be accepted as true or not, whereas I want to know what historical-textual evidence there is for its authenticity.
I think that's still the best place for your question, since those are the members most interested in the doctrine. Your call, though.

:coffee:
Kim

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dylanj
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Re: Looking for information re: earliness & occurrence in various canons of specific doctrine

Post by dylanj » Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:03 pm

oh well it is in the early buddhism subforum...

:thanks:
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all assets, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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Aloka
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Re: Looking for information re: earliness & occurrence in various canons of specific doctrine

Post by Aloka » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:19 pm

dylanj wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:27 am
the doctrine is the 32 marks of a great man
This article by Ajahn Sujato of Sutta Central website might be helpful:

https://sujato.wordpress.com/2011/04/06 ... -32-marks/


:anjali:

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Coëmgenu
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Re: Looking for information re: earliness & occurrence in various canons of specific doctrine

Post by Coëmgenu » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:08 pm

dylanj wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:27 am
the doctrine is the 32 marks of a great man
MA 59, T 1670B2.54, EA 43.2, T 132, SA 2.97, T 76, MA 161, T 129, DA 20, EA 24.2, EA 48.3, DA 1, EA 33.2.

The list goes on much longer than that. All of the above using SuttaCentral's citation system so that they can be easily searched (i.e. no Taishō citations). The 32 marks is 三十二相. You can find the above list by searching 三十二相 in quotation marks (make sure you are searching for specifically Chinese Buddhavacana) on SuttaCentral.

Many of the texts are not translated. The ones that are and are free-to-access as afaik SA-2 97, DA 1, DA 20, EA 10.3 (note: this link leads to a French translation, if you read it that is great, if you do not, GoogleTranslate is much more capable of rendering French --> English than Middle Chinese --> English, if all else fails, to at least get the general jyst), & EA 20.3.

For SA-2 97, look up Ven Anālayo's BDK translation. It used to be free online & hosted at SuttaCentral before the published rescinded on their agreement. Free copies might still be floating around cyberspace.

Ven Anālayo is currently working on a translation of DA. Until then, one has Icihmura Sensei's two volumes available. You can find the relevant āgamāḥ therein.

As many before have noted, mention of the 32 marks is interwoven with the earliest strata of suggested historical Buddhavacana, along with contradicting material that implies that the Buddha has a more-or-less 'normal' appearance. This is one of the things that makes EBT studies fascinating.
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

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