why is authenticity under-valued

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and texts.
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binocular
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Re: Evolutionarily Stable States become "stronger" automatically

Post by binocular » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:24 am

Subharo wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:14 pm
No, that would be virtually impossible. ESS's, by their nature, defend themselves from changes! The concept of the ESS helps me to quit being upset that modern Buddhism has "drifted" away from the Buddha's original ESS, because that "drifting" happens completely naturally (well, actually, the "drifting" is not really random, but is rather highly, highly ordered, which is what ESS's "push towards").

If I can see the ESS itself with a sense of anatta, that frees me from getting upset (or oppositional) towards any one person or group.
Oh, this is so fancy! I mean, really. It looks like you've found (part of) a solution to a problem I've been struggling with hopelessly for a long time!

However, if you know the ESS Buddhism and how it functions, then how can you possibly know the Buddha's original ESS (ESS Dhamma)?

How do you distinguish ESS Buddhism from ESS Dhamma?

And how can you learn the ESS Dhamma, if you distance yourself from the ESS Buddhism?

This is where I get stuck.
Here's a great analogy of this, from "The Way of Chuang Tzu", translated by Thomas Merton:
The Empty Boat
/.../
And similarly, if you were to walk down the street and someone behind you called you a moron, you'd get upset; but when you turned around and saw it was a drunk person or someone with Down Snydrome, your anger would instantly dissipate.
When I hear many monks I've met voicing views which I would categorize as Confucian or Hindu (and they think they are representing the Buddha's Dhamma, parroting vague, intensely-clever euphemisms and aphorisms they've been taught by their teachers), I try not to get upset, and I don't directly oppose them. This takes restraint, and a measure of equanimity. I try to see that person with a sense of anatta (the anatta especially being seen on their side of the conversation) and try to think to myself "that's just an ESS spewing out of this misguided person's mouth."
The thing is that you've learned about anatta (and Chuang Tzu, for that matter) from those same monks!
How do you deal with that?? How do you make sense of that?

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Subharo
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Re: why is authenticity under-valued

Post by Subharo » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:39 am

Hey binocular,

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... on/550859/

Please don't act like Peterson's interviewer (putting words into people's mouths). Thanks.

I think I've said all I need to say in this thread. Maybe your questions might make good, new threads aimed at a general audience.
Subharo Bhikkhu
"There is but one taste on this path, the taste of freedom" -The Buddha :buddha1:

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binocular
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Re: why is authenticity under-valued

Post by binocular » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:44 am

Subharo wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:39 am
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... on/550859/
Please don't act like Peterson's interviewer (putting words into people's mouths). Thanks.
??
Actually, I don't see a problem with the interviewer. She was furthering the conversation and sought clarification for potentially problematic points. Her only "fault" is that she wasn't passive enough, not enough of a mere sounding board, not submissive enough.

Edit: Gee, now I get it. I thought we were having a conversation, a discussion; but you seem to think this was an interview! :o :(

auto
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Re: why is authenticity under-valued

Post by auto » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:43 pm

The disc behind Buddha head. It has a dhamma meaning, but instead one of the opinion is that it is art style of that period. There are other cultures also with that "art style". Dhamma is universal, other traditions have different names but it is still dhamma.

auto
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Re: why is authenticity under-valued

Post by auto » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:49 pm

http://digital.library.upenn.edu/women/ ... ms.html#XX
XX
Jentī (or Jentā).
The story of her past and present is like that of Nandā the Fair; but it was at Vesālī, in the princely family of the Licchavis, that she was reborn. 121 There is this further difference: she attained Arahantship after hearing the Master preach the Dhamma, and it was when reflecting on the change that had come over her that she, in joy, uttered these verses:

The Seven Factors of the awakened mind 122–
Seven ways whereby we may Nibbana win–
All, all have I developed and made ripe,
Even according to the Buddha's word. (21)
For I therein have seen as with mine eyes
The Bless'd, the Exalted One.123 Last of all lives
Is this that makes up Me. The round of births
Is vanquishèd–Ne'er shall I be again! (22)

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