Āgama translation questions

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and texts.
James Tan
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Re: Āgama translation questions

Post by James Tan » Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:15 am

Coëmgenu wrote:
<To the best of my knowledge, 无所为 is a specifically Chinese grammatical curiosity. 所 is a grammatical function in Chinese that is commonly used, but one that I can't get my head around as of yet. 无所为, to the best of my current knowledge, means "lack of lackingness (or "lack of lacker") of activities".>

Hi friends , 无为 in buddhism translations meaning
is the "uncondition", different from the Lao Zi 老子 !

无所为 if according to Lao Zi teachings meaning
is referring to " incubation ", a kind of wisdom of living.


此等諸法,法住、法空、法如、法爾,法不離如,法不異如,審諦真實、不顛倒。
These many dharmāḥ, [these] dharmāḥ['s] residence/dwellinng/abiding, [these] dharmāḥ['s] emptiness, [these] dharmāḥ self-explain/[are-]thus [i.e. They have quality of being self-evident?], [these] dharmāḥ [are] thus-so, [these] dharmāḥ [do] not depart [from their] thusness/self-evidency, [these] dharmāḥ [are] not different/other than [their] thusness/self-evidency, judged as truly real, not delusional (or "without delusion").


FYI 法空 is a typo , should be 法定 .
P/s:
:reading:

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Coëmgenu
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Re: Āgama translation questions

Post by Coëmgenu » Sat Jun 10, 2017 6:08 pm

James Tan wrote:FYI 法空 is a typo , should be 法定 .
P/s:
Is this a manuscript error? CBETA & SuttaCentral have it as 空, is the error in the digitization?
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

thomaslaw
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Re: Āgama translation questions

Post by thomaslaw » Sun Jun 11, 2017 1:30 am

Coëmgenu wrote:
James Tan wrote:FYI 法空 is a typo , should be 法定 .
P/s:
Is this a manuscript error? CBETA & SuttaCentral have it as 空, is the error in the digitization?
法定 is correct in SA 296. See Choong Mun-keat The Fundamental Teachings of Early Buddhism, pp. 152-3, notes 11 and 14. Also in the note 11 of the book, see CSA ii, p. 35.

Regards,

Thomas

thomaslaw
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Re: Āgama translation questions

Post by thomaslaw » Sun Jun 11, 2017 1:41 am

Coëmgenu wrote:I was looking through SA 296 when I came across an interesting line in the translation posted at SuttaCentral by Choong Mun-keat.
如是隨順緣起,是名緣生法。
謂無明、行、識、名色、六入處、觸、受、愛、取、有、生、老、病、死、憂、悲、惱、苦,是名緣生法。
Thus following obeisance [to] causes [of] arisings, this [is] named [the] development [of the] predestination [of the] dharmāḥ. That-is-to-say ignorance, capability, knowing, naming [and] forming, the six senses' touching, touching, receiving, lusting, taking, becoming, developing, aging, sickening, dying, worrying, grieving, [becoming-]angry, suffering, this [is] named [the] development [of the] predestination [of the] dharmāḥ.
緣生法 in SA 296 is translated as 'dharmas (phenomena) arisen by causal condition' by Choong Mun-keat in the book, The Fundamental Teachings of Early Buddhism, pp. 150, 154.

Regards,

Thomas

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Coëmgenu
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Re: Āgama translation questions

Post by Coëmgenu » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:49 am

thomaslaw wrote:
Coëmgenu wrote:I was looking through SA 296 when I came across an interesting line in the translation posted at SuttaCentral by Choong Mun-keat.
如是隨順緣起,是名緣生法。
謂無明、行、識、名色、六入處、觸、受、愛、取、有、生、老、病、死、憂、悲、惱、苦,是名緣生法。
Thus following obeisance [to] causes [of] arisings, this [is] named [the] development [of the] predestination [of the] dharmāḥ. That-is-to-say ignorance, capability, knowing, naming [and] forming, the six senses' touching, touching, receiving, lusting, taking, becoming, developing, aging, sickening, dying, worrying, grieving, [becoming-]angry, suffering, this [is] named [the] development [of the] predestination [of the] dharmāḥ.
緣生法 in SA 296 is translated as 'dharmas (phenomena) arisen by causal condition' by Choong Mun-keat in the book, The Fundamental Teachings of Early Buddhism, pp. 150, 154.
Yes, indeed, but I was not quoting Choong Mun-keat in the passage that you quoted from, indeed, I did not write what you have be quoted as writing, but instead wrote:
Coëmgenu wrote:I was looking through SA 296 when I came across an interesting line in the translation posted at SuttaCentral by Choong Mun-keat.
“Whether a Buddha arises in the world, or not, this is the unchangeable nature of dharma, the status of dharma, the element of dharma.
I've been trying to track down Choong Mun-keat's book for a while though! I just found it in PDF form online. Thank you!

-Caoimhghín
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

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