Yes, that is the quote in its proper context.cappuccino wrote:"the Blessed One would not say, 'A monk with no more effluents, on the break-up of the body, is annihilated, perishes, & does not exist after death.'"Coëmgenu wrote:Where did you find this quote in the sutta?
Yamaka Sutta
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
Asankhata apart from nibbana in early buddhist schools
Re: Asankhata apart from nibbana in early buddhist schools
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Re: Asankhata apart from nibbana in early buddhist schools
This is controversial within Theravāda. The Kathāvatthu says nibbāna is the only unconditioned element, the Milindapañha says space is unconditioned as well. The former position is proposed by Moggaliputta Tissa, the latter by Nāgasena. Theravāda considers both to be arahants.Coyote wrote:In a recent talk Ven. Sujato references the fact that the Theravadin school is the only early Buddhist school that recognised only one unconditioned element, nibbana.
Born, become, arisen – made, prepared, short-lived
Bonded by decay and death – a nest for sickness, perishable
Produced by seeking nutriment – not fit to take delight in
Departure from this is peaceful – beyond reasoning and enduring
Unborn, unarisen – free from sorrow and stain
Ceasing of all factors of suffering – stilling of all preparations is bliss
Bonded by decay and death – a nest for sickness, perishable
Produced by seeking nutriment – not fit to take delight in
Departure from this is peaceful – beyond reasoning and enduring
Unborn, unarisen – free from sorrow and stain
Ceasing of all factors of suffering – stilling of all preparations is bliss
Re: Asankhata apart from nibbana in early buddhist schools
Standard Buddhist response? No, I don't buy it...there's nothing authoritative about that response & I've only seen it expressed from modern western theravādins...to me it seems to be yet another nihilist view.Coëmgenu wrote:The standard Buddhist responce to this is: because the saint never existed, he can never be annihilated.
I don't find it exceptionally convincing.
Born, become, arisen – made, prepared, short-lived
Bonded by decay and death – a nest for sickness, perishable
Produced by seeking nutriment – not fit to take delight in
Departure from this is peaceful – beyond reasoning and enduring
Unborn, unarisen – free from sorrow and stain
Ceasing of all factors of suffering – stilling of all preparations is bliss
Bonded by decay and death – a nest for sickness, perishable
Produced by seeking nutriment – not fit to take delight in
Departure from this is peaceful – beyond reasoning and enduring
Unborn, unarisen – free from sorrow and stain
Ceasing of all factors of suffering – stilling of all preparations is bliss
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Re: Asankhata apart from nibbana in early buddhist schools
If you never existed, this is extreme.
If you always existed… as you, this is another extreme.
Nothing is self… those extremes fail.
If you always existed… as you, this is another extreme.
Nothing is self… those extremes fail.
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Re: Asankhata apart from nibbana in early buddhist schools
Greetings,
Metta,
Paul.
Indeed it is controversial. I believe Milindapañha is taking a materialist stance of naive realism when speaking of "space" as asankhata. As such I disagree with it, because the only thing that sankhata applies to is phenomenological experience (i.e. not objective physical elements or the lack thereof). The experience of space, even in its most sublime and infinite jhanic form, is still sankhata.maranadhammomhi wrote:This is controversial within Theravāda. The Kathāvatthu says nibbāna is the only unconditioned element, the Milindapañha says space is unconditioned as well. The former position is proposed by Moggaliputta Tissa, the latter by Nāgasena. Theravāda considers both to be arahants.
Metta,
Paul.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."