Asankhata apart from nibbana in early buddhist schools

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and texts.
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Coëmgenu
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Re: Asankhata apart from nibbana in early buddhist schools

Post by Coëmgenu » Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:25 am

cappuccino wrote:
Coëmgenu wrote:Where did you find this quote in the sutta?
"the Blessed One would not say, 'A monk with no more effluents, on the break-up of the body, is annihilated, perishes, & does not exist after death.'"
Yamaka Sutta
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
Yes, that is the quote in its proper context. :anjali:
世尊在靈山會上拈華示眾眾皆默然唯迦葉破顏微笑世尊云
The Lord dwelt at the Vulture Peak with the assembly and plucked a flower as a teaching. The myriad totality were silent, save for Kāśyapa, whose face cracked in a faint smile. The Lord spoke.
吾有正法眼藏涅槃妙心實相無相微妙法門不立文字教外別傳付囑摩訶迦葉。
I have the treasure of the true dharma eye, I have nirvāṇa as wondrous citta, I know signless dharmatā, the subtle dharma-gate, which is not standing on written word, which is external to scriptures, which is a special dispensation, which is entrusted to Mahākāśyapa.

नस्वातोनापिपरतोनद्वाभ्यांनाप्यहेतुतः

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dylanj
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Re: Asankhata apart from nibbana in early buddhist schools

Post by dylanj » Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:25 pm

Coyote wrote:In a recent talk Ven. Sujato references the fact that the Theravadin school is the only early Buddhist school that recognised only one unconditioned element, nibbana.
This is controversial within Theravāda. The Kathāvatthu says nibbāna is the only unconditioned element, the Milindapañha says space is unconditioned as well. The former position is proposed by Moggaliputta Tissa, the latter by Nāgasena. Theravāda considers both to be arahants.
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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dylanj
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Re: Asankhata apart from nibbana in early buddhist schools

Post by dylanj » Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:30 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:The standard Buddhist responce to this is: because the saint never existed, he can never be annihilated.

I don't find it exceptionally convincing.
Standard Buddhist response? No, I don't buy it...there's nothing authoritative about that response & I've only seen it expressed from modern western theravādins...to me it seems to be yet another nihilist view.
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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cappuccino
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Re: Asankhata apart from nibbana in early buddhist schools

Post by cappuccino » Sat May 06, 2017 9:55 pm

If you never existed, this is extreme.
If you always existed… as you, this is another extreme.

Nothing is self… those extremes fail.

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retrofuturist
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Re: Asankhata apart from nibbana in early buddhist schools

Post by retrofuturist » Mon May 08, 2017 5:39 am

Greetings,
maranadhammomhi wrote:This is controversial within Theravāda. The Kathāvatthu says nibbāna is the only unconditioned element, the Milindapañha says space is unconditioned as well. The former position is proposed by Moggaliputta Tissa, the latter by Nāgasena. Theravāda considers both to be arahants.
Indeed it is controversial. I believe Milindapañha is taking a materialist stance of naive realism when speaking of "space" as asankhata. As such I disagree with it, because the only thing that sankhata applies to is phenomenological experience (i.e. not objective physical elements or the lack thereof). The experience of space, even in its most sublime and infinite jhanic form, is still sankhata.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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