Dating the Buddha

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and texts.
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Ajatashatru
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Re: Dating the Buddha

Post by Ajatashatru » Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:18 pm

Ben wrote:
Ajatashatru wrote:The problem is the Westerners who support the traditional chronology don't find much support, they don't get grants, etc.
Yet another assertion made without evidence.
Sir is it not evidence enough that almost every scholar jumped aboard the later dates and then the scholar who is supporting the latest date immediately found support from senior scholars like Witzel of Harvard.

daverupa
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Re: Dating the Buddha

Post by daverupa » Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:57 pm

I am influenced by the Hindu thinker Rajiv Malhotra...
...who has written a book.

Reading these entries might clarify the foundational point of view being expressed by the OP.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

pulga
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Re: Dating the Buddha

Post by pulga » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:34 pm

clw_uk wrote:I would also like to add, why would it matter in, relation to dhamma, when the Buddha was born?
It doesn't matter.

daverupa
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Re: Dating the Buddha

Post by daverupa » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:49 pm

pulga wrote:
clw_uk wrote:I would also like to add, why would it matter in, relation to dhamma, when the Buddha was born?
It doesn't matter.
Well, it does help to circumscribe the possible length of time between the Buddha's teaching career and Asoka's missions, which helps to define the shape of the period within which the Nikayas formed up. In relation to the Dhamma which these texts indicate, this knowledge can be significant.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

pulga
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Re: Dating the Buddha

Post by pulga » Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:24 pm

daverupa wrote: Well, it does help to circumscribe the possible length of time between the Buddha's teaching career and Asoka's missions, which helps to define the shape of the period within which the Nikayas formed up. In relation to the Dhamma which these texts indicate, this knowledge can be significant.
Do you really believe you'll ever arrive at any apodictic conclusion in the matter? The whole topic reminds me what the Buddha was trying to convey in the Brahmajalasutta: all historical theories, be they speculations about the past, the present, or the future, are a net of views derived from phassa.

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Ajatashatru
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Re: Dating the Buddha

Post by Ajatashatru » Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:06 pm

daverupa wrote:
I am influenced by the Hindu thinker Rajiv Malhotra...
...who has written a book.

Reading these entries might clarify the foundational point of view being expressed by the OP.

Thanks for the link, I would like some of our senior members to read the article and see what they think.

daverupa
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Re: Dating the Buddha

Post by daverupa » Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:44 pm

pulga wrote:Do you really believe you'll ever arrive at any apodictic conclusion in the matter?
There's no need to set the bar so high.

:focus:
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

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Ceisiwr
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Re: Dating the Buddha

Post by Ceisiwr » Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:35 pm

pulga wrote:
daverupa wrote: Well, it does help to circumscribe the possible length of time between the Buddha's teaching career and Asoka's missions, which helps to define the shape of the period within which the Nikayas formed up. In relation to the Dhamma which these texts indicate, this knowledge can be significant.
Do you really believe you'll ever arrive at any apodictic conclusion in the matter? The whole topic reminds me what the Buddha was trying to convey in the Brahmajalasutta: all historical theories, be they speculations about the past, the present, or the future, are a net of views derived from phassa.



:thumbsup: :goodpost:


:namaste:

Bankei
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Re: Dating the Buddha

Post by Bankei » Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:52 am

Bechert edited a large 3 volume work which was a collection of papers on the dating of the historical Buddha. There are papers looking at the date from many different traditions and angles. One was by Gombrich in which he went through the Pali commentaries and worked out based on rough ages and life expectancies how long ago the Buddha would have died from a certain date in the Mahavamsa. Another was based on doctrinal developments - how long would it take for the teachings to develop, another on the archeaological evidence, another on the Chinese dotted record, another on the Tibetan tradition, chinese tradition etc etc. Great book

BTW, Bechert died around 2008
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Bankei

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