Yamaka Sutta ideas - please help

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and texts.
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DooDoot
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Yamaka Sutta ideas - please help

Post by DooDoot » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:30 pm

Dear DW forum

I posted:
DooDoot wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:14 pm
Nibbana is the end of craving & greed, hatred & delusion.
cappuccino replied:
cappuccino wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:17 pm
It's not good to misrepresent the Blessed One, for the Blessed One would not say,
'A monk with no more effluents
, on the break-up of the body, is annihilated, perishes & does not exist after death.'

Yamaka Sutta
It appears Cappuccino is saying the Buddha would not say a monk without greed, hatred & delusion has attained Nibbana.

It appears Cappuccino is saying Nibbana is the break-up of the body, annihilated, perishes & does not exist after death.

Please clarify or discuss.

Thank you
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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cappuccino
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Re: Yamaka Sutta ideas - please help

Post by cappuccino » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:31 pm

It's not good to misrepresent the Blessed One, for the Blessed One would not say, 'A monk with no more effluents, on the break-up of the body, is annihilated, perishes, & does not exist after death.'

Yamaka Sutta

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DooDoot
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Re: Yamaka Sutta ideas - please help

Post by DooDoot » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:34 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:31 pm
It's not good to misrepresent the Blessed One, for the Blessed One would not say, 'A monk with no more effluents, on the break-up of the body, is annihilated, perishes, & does not exist after death.'

Yamaka Sutta
Thank you. However, the above unexplained quote has already been posted. This thread is asking for an explanation of what cappuccino posted.
Last edited by DooDoot on Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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cappuccino
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Re: Yamaka Sutta ideas - please help

Post by cappuccino » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:35 pm

DooDoot wrote: This thread is asking for an explanation.
you misrepresent the teaching

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DooDoot
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Re: Yamaka Sutta ideas - please help

Post by DooDoot » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:36 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:35 pm
you misrepresent the teaching
how?

what does the teaching means?

how has it been misrepresented?

thanks :shrug:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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cappuccino
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Re: Yamaka Sutta ideas - please help

Post by cappuccino » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:37 pm

DooDoot wrote: how has it been misrepresented?
right view is karma & rebirth


in other words, not annihilation

binocular
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Re: Yamaka Sutta ideas - please help

Post by binocular » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:45 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:30 pm
I posted:
DooDoot wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:14 pm
Nibbana is the end of craving & greed, hatred & delusion.
cappuccino replied:
cappuccino wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:17 pm
It's not good to misrepresent the Blessed One, for the Blessed One would not say,
'A monk with no more effluents
, on the break-up of the body, is annihilated, perishes & does not exist after death.'

Yamaka Sutta
It appears Cappuccino is saying the Buddha would not say a monk without greed, hatred & delusion has attained Nibbana.

It appears Cappuccino is saying Nibbana is the break-up of the body, annihilated, perishes & does not exist after death.
I think the reference for this is to the formulation repeated several times throughout the suttas:
"Does the Tathagata exist after death?"... "Does the Tathagata not exist after death?"... "Does the Tathagata both exist and not exist after death?"... "Does the Tathagata neither exist nor not exist after death?"

"Vaccha, that too has not been declared by me: 'The Tathagata neither exists nor does not exist after death."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
"That, friend, has not been declared by the Blessed One: 'The Tathagata exists after death.'"
"Well then, friend Kotthita, does the Tathagata not exist after death?"
"Friend, that too has not been declared by the Blessed One: 'The Tathagata does not exist after death.'"
"Then does the Tathagata both exist and not exist after death?"
"That has not been declared by the Blessed One: 'The Tathagata both exists and does not exist after death.'"
"Well then, does the Tathagata neither exist nor not exist after death?"
"That too has not been declared by the Blessed One: 'The Tathagata neither exists nor does not exist after death.'"

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
Etc.

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DooDoot
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Re: Yamaka Sutta ideas - please help

Post by DooDoot » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:27 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:37 pm
right view is karma & rebirth


in other words, not annihilation
The above appears to say 'A monk with no more effluents' is reborn.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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cappuccino
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Re: Yamaka Sutta ideas - please help

Post by cappuccino » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:08 pm

DooDoot wrote:
cappuccino wrote: right view is karma & rebirth


in other words, not annihilation
The above appears to say 'A monk with no more effluents' is reborn.
well that's not what it says

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DooDoot
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Re: Yamaka Sutta ideas - please help

Post by DooDoot » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:55 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:08 pm
well that's not what it says
Then this topic is back to the 1st post. Please help understand what Cappuccino is saying!?
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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cappuccino
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Re: Yamaka Sutta ideas - please help

Post by cappuccino » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:40 am

paradox
noun
a seemingly absurd or self-contradictory statement or proposition that when investigated or explained may prove to be well founded or true.

a situation, person, or thing that combines contradictory features or qualities.

alfa
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Re: Yamaka Sutta ideas - please help

Post by alfa » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:23 am

cappuccino wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:08 pm
DooDoot wrote:
cappuccino wrote: right view is karma & rebirth


in other words, not annihilation
The above appears to say 'A monk with no more effluents' is reborn.
well that's not what it says
Can you explain it further, maybe with more than a line or two? Thanks.

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cappuccino
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Re: Yamaka Sutta ideas - please help

Post by cappuccino » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:52 am

alfa wrote:
cappuccino wrote:
DooDoot wrote:
The above appears to say 'A monk with no more effluents' is reborn.
well that's not what it says
Can you explain it further, maybe with more than a line or two? Thanks.
I always say there isn't annihilation

even with Nirvana after death

rather Nirvana is a state of mind

a forever state

confusedlayman
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Re: Yamaka Sutta ideas - please help

Post by confusedlayman » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:04 am

cappuccino wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:52 am
alfa wrote:
cappuccino wrote:

well that's not what it says
Can you explain it further, maybe with more than a line or two? Thanks.
I always say there isn't annihilation

even with Nirvana after death

rather Nirvana is a state of mind

a forever state
complete BS. wrong view.
non-agitation is highest peace
living unaffected by other cause and condition to suffering is true bliss
not associating with stupid people is immediate peace
- CL (confused layman)

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cappuccino
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Re: Yamaka Sutta ideas - please help

Post by cappuccino » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:44 pm

confusedlayman wrote: complete BS. wrong view.
:computerproblem:

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