SN 12.2 says:
MN 141 says:SN 12.2 wrote:And what is feeling?
Katamā ca, bhikkhave, vedanā?
There are these six classes of feeling.
Chayime, bhikkhave, vedanākāyā
Feeling born of contact through the eye, ear, nose, tongue, body and mind.
cakkhusamphassajā vedanā, sotasamphassajā vedanā, ghānasamphassajā vedanā, jivhāsamphassajā vedanā, kāyasamphassajā vedanā, manosamphassajā vedanā.
This is called feeling.
Ayaṃ vuccati, bhikkhave, vedanā.
However, there are suttas appearing to refer to Arahants experiencing manosamphassajā vedanā (mental feelings) as follows:MN 141 wrote:And what is sadness?
Mental pain, mental displeasure, the painful, unpleasant feeling that’s born from mind contact.
Yaṃ kho, āvuso, cetasikaṃ dukkhaṃ cetasikaṃ asātaṃ manosamphassajaṃ dukkhaṃ asātaṃ vedayitaṃ,
This is called sadness.
idaṃ vuccatāvuso: ‘domanassaṃ’.
MN 38 wrote:When they know a thought with their mind, if it’s pleasant they don’t desire it, and if it’s unpleasant they don’t dislike it. They live with mindfulness of the body established and a limitless heart.
manasā dhammaṃ viññāya piyarūpe dhamme na sārajjati, appiyarūpe dhamme na byāpajjati, upaṭṭhitakāyasati ca viharati appamāṇacetaso,
And they truly understand the freedom of heart and freedom by wisdom where those arisen bad, unskillful qualities cease without anything left over.
tañca cetovimuttiṃ paññāvimuttiṃ yathābhūtaṃ pajānāti yatthassa te pāpakā akusalā dhammā aparisesā nirujjhanti.
Having given up favoring and opposing, when they experience any kind of feeling — pleasant, unpleasant, or neutral—they don’t approve, welcome, or keep clinging to it.
So evaṃ anurodhavirodhavippahīno yaṃ kiñci vedanaṃ vedeti, sukhaṃ vā dukkhaṃ vā adukkhamasukhaṃ vā, so taṃ vedanaṃ nābhinandati nābhivadati nājjhosāya tiṭṭhati.
As a result, relishing of feelings ceases.
Tassa taṃ vedanaṃ anabhinandato anabhivadato anajjhosāya tiṭṭhato yā vedanāsu nandī sā nirujjhati.
When their relishing ceases, grasping ceases. When grasping ceases, continued existence ceases. When continued existence ceases, rebirth ceases. When rebirth ceases, old age and death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress cease.
Tassa nandīnirodhā upādānanirodho, upādānanirodhā bhavanirodho, bhavanirodhā jātinirodho, jātinirodhā jarāmaraṇaṃ sokaparidevadukkhadomanassupāyāsā nirujjhanti.
That is how this entire mass of suffering ceases.
Evametassa kevalassa dukkhakkhandhassa nirodho hoti.
Interestingly, Iti 44 appears to say Arahant do not experience mental feelings, as follows:MN 148 wrote:Mind consciousness arises dependent on the mind and thoughts. The meeting of the three is contact. Contact is a condition for what is felt as pleasant, painful, or neutral.
“Manañca, bhikkhave, paṭicca dhamme ca uppajjati manoviññāṇaṃ tiṇṇaṃ saṅgati phasso, phassapaccayā uppajjati vedayitaṃ sukhaṃ vā dukkhaṃ vā adukkhamasukhaṃ vā.
When you experience a pleasant feeling, if you don’t approve, welcome, and keep clinging to it,
So sukhāya vedanāya phuṭṭho samāno nābhinandati nābhivadati nājjhosāya tiṭṭhati.
it’s totally possible to make an end of suffering in the present life.
Topics for discussion are:Iti 44 wrote:Here a bhikkhu is an arahant, one whose taints are destroyed, the holy life fulfilled, who has done what had to be done, laid down the burden, attained the goal, destroyed the fetters of being, completely released through final knowledge. However, his five sense faculties remain unimpaired, by which he still experiences what is agreeable and disagreeable and feels pleasure and pain.
1. Does the word 'domanassa' refer to all unpleasant feelings arising from mind contact, per MN 141?
2. Or does the word 'domanassa' only refer to unpleasant feelings arising from mind contact with mental proliferations born from craving & attachment (aka papanca), per MN 38?
3. Do arahants experience unpleasant feelings born from mind contact, per MN 148 & MN 38 and contrary to Iti 44?