MN 43: What is meaning by "his faculties are exceptionally clear"?

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and texts.
James Tan
Posts: 850
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:26 pm

Re: MN 43: What is meaning by "his faculties are exceptionally clear"?

Post by James Tan » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:14 pm

rightviewftw wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:45 pm
James Tan wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:37 pm
Why not you explain the meaning of five aggregates according to your understanding in English ?
Because , I don't see any problems since you are reading English translation sutta and use English to communicate to everyone ? I still don't understand what is the difference between our language or the suttas meaning ?


For example , scholar bhante in another forum defines namarupa as name and form while the Theravada monk I learned from define it as six sense media vs six sense objects processes .

So, you see, I have to repeatedly check out and investigate the whole thing .


Feeling, perception, & consciousness are conjoined, friend, not disjoined. It is not possible, having separated them one from another, to delineate the difference among them.
If you are perplexed about the function of Khandas you can search the forum, read the Khanda Vagga
(https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... ml#khandha) or make a new thread.

Why not use the conventional definitions is because ie "consciousness" is the biggest mystery in science, it is completely undefined and a vague concept. Whereas in The Dhamma the term Vinnana, the Aggregates as well as their Interrelation is perfectly explained, pinned down and defined.
Same with other terms ie wisdom, we do not change Dhamma to fit our world view, we break our world view and rebuild it according to the Dhamma.

Throughout the Sutta Pitaka we find defintions for words, this is crucial to connecting the various terms and making sense of the teaching by forming a comperhensive model of the teachings as well as a model of reality to understand the world and beyond.
But , is not that goes against the Kalama sutta ?
If the suttas while passing down to us having errors , you would not know for sure , do you ?

For example , another forum bhante define namarupa as name and form .
I learned from a Theravada monk whom define it as six sense media vs six sense objects processes .


Btw , thanks for the link .
:reading:

User avatar
rightviewftw
Posts: 1845
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: MN 43: What is meaning by "his faculties are exceptionally clear"?

Post by rightviewftw » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:32 pm

James Tan wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:14 pm
rightviewftw wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:45 pm
James Tan wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:37 pm
Why not you explain the meaning of five aggregates according to your understanding in English ?
Because , I don't see any problems since you are reading English translation sutta and use English to communicate to everyone ? I still don't understand what is the difference between our language or the suttas meaning ?



Feeling, perception, & consciousness are conjoined, friend, not disjoined. It is not possible, having separated them one from another, to delineate the difference among them.
If you are perplexed about the function of Khandas you can search the forum, read the Khanda Vagga
(https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... ml#khandha) or make a new thread.

Why not use the conventional definitions is because ie "consciousness" is the biggest mystery in science, it is completely undefined and a vague concept. Whereas in The Dhamma the term Vinnana, the Aggregates as well as their Interrelation is perfectly explained, pinned down and defined.
Same with other terms ie wisdom, we do not change Dhamma to fit our world view, we break our world view and rebuild it according to the Dhamma.

Throughout the Sutta Pitaka we find defintions for words, this is crucial to connecting the various terms and making sense of the teaching by forming a comperhensive model of the teachings as well as a model of reality to understand the world and beyond.
But , is not that goes against the Kalama sutta ?
If the suttas while passing down to us having errors , you would not know for sure , do you ?
You can try looking at it this way, there is a body of text supposedly containing a doctrine perfect in the beginning, perfect in the middle and perfect in the end. You can form a model of this doctrine by studying the texts. As you build this model some things you will have doubt about and won't understand but you should not reject things as wrong before you beyond reasonable doubt establish it to be wrong or contradictory. You do not have to blindly accept things either but you should be able to entertain the ideas, trying to make sense of it.

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 2762
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: MN 43: What is meaning by "his faculties are exceptionally clear"?

Post by DooDoot » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:42 am

2600htz wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:22 pm
Hello DooDoot:

This is just a personal opinion-

1. What is meant by the phrase: "his faculties are exceptionally clear"? . When a person is in the cessation of perception & feeling, he doesn´t have any consciousness, or perception, or feeling. There is nothing. But like MN-121 states: "There is only this non-emptiness: that connected with the six sensory spheres, dependent on this very body with life as its condition.". So basically you have sense-doors/heat and vitality, but you don´t even know it until you come out of that state.So by the statement "his faculties are exceptionally clear" it means your senses are completely clear because you are not using them, they are not being "tainted" by any contact/craving, but they are there.

2. Are these "faculties" mental faculties, spiritual faculties or physical faculties? Physical faculties, or even the mind door, but no mind objects. But when the person comes out of that state its when the other faculties also become "exceptionally clear".

"Then Sariputta the wanderer went to Moggallana the wanderer. Moggallana the wanderer saw him coming from afar and, on seeing him, said, "Bright are your faculties, my friend; pure your complexion, and clear. Could it be that you have attained the Deathless?".

3. Are these "faculties" conscious or unconscious in nirodha-samāpatti? Unconscious at that time, they just become conscious when coming out of that state, because when consciousness comes back you are able to see the first things that arise due to the senses already being there (eye of wisdom).

4. Can consciousness arise without perception & feeling? I don´t think so.

Regards.
Thank you for your answer, 2600htz. I think what you wrote sounds reasonable. :smile:
James Tan wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:51 am
1. What is meant by the phrase: "his faculties are exceptionally clear"?

Purified , Cleansed , Calmed.

2. Are these "faculties" mental faculties, spiritual faculties or physical faculties?

Physical

3. Are these "faculties" conscious or unconscious in nirodha-samāpatti?

It is in suspended state . Consciousness operating in passive mode .

4. Can consciousness arise without perception & feeling?

Can. Only the feeling perception suspended .
Thank you James. Since MN 43 refers to the five physical sense organs, yes, the faculties are probably the physical sense organs. Although the physical sense organs are probably not active, the purification of the mind probably makes the physical sense organs purified and cleaned. However, I think some suttas (such as MN 43; MN 38; SN 22.53) seem to say consciousness cannot arise without feeling & perception.

Regards :smile:

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 2762
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: MN 43: What is meaning by "his faculties are exceptionally clear"?

Post by DooDoot » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:06 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:15 pm
"And what is feeling? These six classes of feeling — feeling born of eye-contact, feeling born of ear-contact, feeling born of nose-contact, feeling born of tongue-contact, feeling born of body-contact, feeling born of intellect-contact: this is called feeling. From the origination of contact comes the origination of feeling. From the cessation of contact comes the cessation of feeling. And just this noble eightfold path is the path of practice leading to the cessation of feeling...

"And what is perception? These six classes of perception — perception of form, perception of sound, perception of smell, perception of taste, perception of tactile sensation, perception of ideas: this is called perception. From the origination of contact comes the origination of perception. From the cessation of contact comes the cessation of perception. And just this noble eightfold path is the path of practice leading to the cessation of perception...
These quotes appear to be merely English translations and are about Dependent Origination/Cessation rather than Nirodha Samapatti.

Given there are so many suttas that say an Arahant has feelings, I doubt the word "nirodha" above means the "destruction" of feelings but, instead, feelings not polluted by ignorance, as is described in many suttas; such as MN 38:
On seeing a form with the eye, he does not lust after it if it is pleasing; he does not dislike it if it is unpleasing. He abides with mindfulness of the body established, with an immeasurable mind, and he understands as it actually is the deliverance of mind and deliverance by wisdom wherein those evil unwholesome states cease without remainder. Having thus abandoned favouring and opposing, whatever feeling he feels, whether pleasant or painful or neither-painful-nor-pleasant, he does not delight in that feeling, welcome it or remain holding to it. As he does not do so, delight in feelings ceases in him. With the cessation of his delight comes cessation of clinging; with the cessation of clinging, cessation of being; with the cessation of being, cessation of birth; with the cessation of birth, ageing and death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief, and despair cease. Such is the cessation of this whole mass of suffering.

MN 38
I think when we practise the Dhamma and have realisation, we will confirm this reality.
rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:15 pm
Vinnana Anidassanam is the only consciousness on the treshold of The Unmade and beyond the treshold of the Cessation;
Where do water, earth, fire, & wind
have no footing?
Where are long & short,
coarse & fine,
fair & foul,
name & form
brought to an end?

"'And the answer to that is:

Consciousness without feature,[1]
without end,
luminous all around:
Here water, earth, fire, & wind
have no footing.
Here long & short
coarse & fine
fair & foul
name & form
are all brought to an end.
With the cessation of [the activity of] consciousness
each is here brought to an end.'"
The above appears to be a very popular quote for those longing for some peace & clarity of mind however it must be questioned because:

1. The listeners do not attain enlightenment in the sutta where this quote is found.

2. Many many suttas, such as MN 9, SN 12.67, MN 38, MN 43, SN 22.53, MN 111, etc, say consciousness & nama-rupa arise & cease together and that there cannot be a consciousness without perception & feeling; i.e., there cannot be a consciousness without at least nama.

Anyway. I have addressed these issues before and it is basically pointless to keep repeating. :smile:

James Tan
Posts: 850
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:26 pm

Re: MN 43: What is meaning by "his faculties are exceptionally clear"?

Post by James Tan » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:03 am

DooDoot wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:42 am

James Tan wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:51 am
1. What is meant by the phrase: "his faculties are exceptionally clear"?

Purified , Cleansed , Calmed.

2. Are these "faculties" mental faculties, spiritual faculties or physical faculties?

Physical

3. Are these "faculties" conscious or unconscious in nirodha-samāpatti?

It is in suspended state . Consciousness operating in passive mode .

4. Can consciousness arise without perception & feeling?

Can. Only the feeling perception suspended .
Thank you James. Since MN 43 refers to the five physical sense organs, yes, the faculties are probably the physical sense organs. Although the physical sense organs are probably not active, the purification of the mind probably makes the physical sense organs purified and cleaned. However, I think some suttas (such as MN 43; MN 38; SN 22.53) seem to say consciousness cannot arise without feeling & perception.

Regards :smile:
Could you give some examples of what feeling is ? Do you think "non" perception is a perception also ?
:reading:

User avatar
rightviewftw
Posts: 1845
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: MN 43: What is meaning by "his faculties are exceptionally clear"?

Post by rightviewftw » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:22 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:06 am
rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:15 pm
"And what is feeling? These six classes of feeling — feeling born of eye-contact, feeling born of ear-contact, feeling born of nose-contact, feeling born of tongue-contact, feeling born of body-contact, feeling born of intellect-contact: this is called feeling. From the origination of contact comes the origination of feeling. From the cessation of contact comes the cessation of feeling. And just this noble eightfold path is the path of practice leading to the cessation of feeling...

"And what is perception? These six classes of perception — perception of form, perception of sound, perception of smell, perception of taste, perception of tactile sensation, perception of ideas: this is called perception. From the origination of contact comes the origination of perception. From the cessation of contact comes the cessation of perception. And just this noble eightfold path is the path of practice leading to the cessation of perception...
These quotes appear to be merely English translations and are about Dependent Origination/Cessation rather than Nirodha Samapatti.

Given there are so many suttas that say an Arahant has feelings, I doubt the word "nirodha" above means the "destruction" of feelings but, instead, feelings not polluted by ignorance, as is described in many suttas; such as MN 38:
On seeing a form with the eye, he does not lust after it if it is pleasing; he does not dislike it if it is unpleasing. He abides with mindfulness of the body established, with an immeasurable mind, and he understands as it actually is the deliverance of mind and deliverance by wisdom wherein those evil unwholesome states cease without remainder. Having thus abandoned favouring and opposing, whatever feeling he feels, whether pleasant or painful or neither-painful-nor-pleasant, he does not delight in that feeling, welcome it or remain holding to it. As he does not do so, delight in feelings ceases in him. With the cessation of his delight comes cessation of clinging; with the cessation of clinging, cessation of being; with the cessation of being, cessation of birth; with the cessation of birth, ageing and death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief, and despair cease. Such is the cessation of this whole mass of suffering.

MN 38
This does not even make sense, at all, the quotes are explicit. The explaination of how the cessation and the arising of feelings occur and can occur by means of DO is well expounded upon in the Sutta Pitaka and it is not by magic. However i am not at all interested in spending energy on teaching someone who is not at all interested in understanding and clings to a rediculously oversimplified understanding of a complex teaching.
Last edited by rightviewftw on Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:28 pm, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 2762
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: MN 43: What is meaning by "his faculties are exceptionally clear"?

Post by DooDoot » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:26 pm

James Tan wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:03 am
Do you think "non" perception is a perception also ?
Non-perception cannot be a perception. For example, the experience of "consciousness without feature" must be a perception. If it was not a perception, logically, it could not be remembered or described.

'Nama' is feeling, perception, intention, contact & attention. In my opinion, there can be no experience of "consciousness without feature" without perception of it. Therefore, imo, there can be no "consciousness without feature" that destroys nama-rupa (unless nama-rupa has its Brahmanistic meaning of "naming-forms").
rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:22 pm
This does not even make sense, at all, the quotes are explicit. The explaination of how the cessation and the arising of feelings occur and can occur by means of DO is well expounded upon in the Sutta Pitaka and it is not by magic. However i am not at all interested in spending energy on teaching someone who is not at all interested in understanding and clings to a rediculously oversimplified understanding of a complex teaching.
The Buddha never said his teaching were "complex" (MN 22). I really hope you ordain one day. 5 years of obedience to discipline & limitations to talk.
Monks, in this Teaching that is so well proclaimed by me and is plain, open, explicit and free of patchwork.

MN 22

User avatar
rightviewftw
Posts: 1845
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: MN 43: What is meaning by "his faculties are exceptionally clear"?

Post by rightviewftw » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:12 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:26 pm
The Buddha never said his teaching were "complex" (MN 22). I really hope you ordain one day. 5 years of obedience to discipline & limitations to talk.
Monks, in this Teaching that is so well proclaimed by me and is plain, open, explicit and free of patchwork.

MN 22
You are extracting information that the Dhamma is not-complex from where it is not stated, ie above, plain, open, explicit do not mean that it is not complex or is simple.
I have heard that on one occasion, when the Blessed One was newly Self-awakened, he was staying at Uruvela on the bank of the Nerañjara River, at the foot of the Goatherd's Banyan Tree. Then, while he was alone and in seclusion, this line of thinking arose in his awareness: "This Dhamma that I have attained is deep, hard to see, hard to realize, peaceful, refined, beyond the scope of conjecture, subtle, to-be-experienced by the wise. But this generation delights in attachment, is excited by attachment, enjoys attachment. For a generation delighting in attachment, excited by attachment, enjoying attachment, this/that conditionality and dependent co-arising are hard to see. This state, too, is hard to see: the resolution of all fabrications, the relinquishment of all acquisitions, the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding. And if I were to teach the Dhamma and if others would not understand me, that would be tiresome for me, troublesome for me."

Just then these verses, unspoken in the past, unheard before, occurred to the Blessed One:

Enough now with teaching
what
only with difficulty
I reached.
This Dhamma is not easily realized
by those overcome
with aversion & passion.

What is abstruse, subtle,
deep,
hard to see,
going against the flow —
those delighting in passion,
cloaked in the mass of darkness,
won't see.
Monks, in this Teaching that is so well proclaimed by me and is plain, open, explicit and free of patchwork.

MN 22
as it said this Dhamma even tho it is hard to understand it is well explained. The simple understanding such as;
- A person is reborn as long as there is craving, when there is no craving he is not reborn.

Even tho this is a true statement but without explaining what is rebirth, how it can happen and how to destroy the craving, it is just a extremely over simplified.

of course it is hard to understand how someone can enter cessation of perception and feeling, how there can be pleasure, consciousness and perception where there is neither feeling, perception nor consciousness;
"Friend Sariputta, could a monk have an attainment of concentration such that he would neither be percipient of earth with regard to earth, nor of water with regard to water, nor of fire... wind... the dimension of the infinitude of space... the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness... the dimension of nothingness... the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception... this world... nor of the next world with regard to the next world, and yet he would still be percipient?"

"Yes, friend Ananda, he could..."
Even Devas and Brahma do not understand it;
"There is the case, Sandha, where for an excellent thoroughbred of a man the perception[2] of earth with regard to earth has ceased to exist; the perception of liquid with regard to liquid... the perception of fire with regard to fire... the perception of wind with regard to wind... the perception of the sphere of the infinitude of space with regard to the sphere of the infinitude of space... the perception of the sphere of the infinitude of consciousness with regard to the sphere of the infinitude of consciousness... the perception of the sphere of nothingness with regard to the sphere of nothingness... the perception of the sphere of neither perception nor non-perception with regard to the sphere of neither perception nor non-perception... the perception of this world with regard to this world... the next world with regard to the next world... and whatever is seen, heard, sensed, cognized, attained, sought after, or pondered by the intellect: the perception of that has ceased to exist.

"Absorbed in this way, the excellent thoroughbred of a man is absorbed dependent neither on earth, liquid, fire, wind, the sphere of the infinitude of space, the sphere of the infinitude of consciousness, the sphere of nothingness, the sphere of neither perception nor non-perception, this world, the next world, nor on whatever is seen, heard, sensed, cognized, attained, sought after, or pondered by the intellect — and yet he is absorbed. And to this excellent thoroughbred of a man, absorbed in this way, the gods, together with Indra, the Brahmas, & Pajapati, pay homage even from afar:

'Homage to you, O thoroughbred man.
Homage to you, O superlative man —
you of whom we don't know even what it is
dependent on which
you're absorbed.'"

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 2762
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: MN 43: What is meaning by "his faculties are exceptionally clear"?

Post by DooDoot » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:58 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:12 pm
...
The quotes above only say the Dhamma is difficult for those delighting in lustfulness. :pig:

User avatar
robertk
Posts: 2891
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:08 am

Re: MN 43: What is meaning by "his faculties are exceptionally clear"?

Post by robertk » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:14 am

DooDoot wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:58 am
rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:12 pm
...
The quotes above only say the Dhamma is difficult for those delighting in lustfulness. :pig:
According to the sutta the Buddha also said that
: "This Dhamma that I have attained is deep, hard to see, hard to realize, peaceful, refined, beyond the scope of conjecture, subtle, to-be-experienced by the wise. But this generation delights in attachment, is excited by attachment, enjoys attachment.."

And isn't that the truth.

James Tan
Posts: 850
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:26 pm

Re: MN 43: What is meaning by "his faculties are exceptionally clear"?

Post by James Tan » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:00 am

DooDoot wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:26 pm
James Tan wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:03 am
Do you think "non" perception is a perception also ?
Non-perception cannot be a perception. For example, the experience of "consciousness without feature" must be a perception. If it was not a perception, logically, it could not be remembered or described.

'Nama' is feeling, perception, intention, contact & attention. In my opinion, there can be no experience of "consciousness without feature" without perception of it. Therefore, imo, there can be no "consciousness without feature" that destroys nama-rupa (unless nama-rupa has its Brahmanistic meaning of "naming-forms").

Would you consider that the Nama definition described in the sutta as "feeling, perception, intention, contact & attention" ,
where the namarupa link is actually corrupted and therefore originally does not include contact and attention ?
Does the contact in namarupa is different from contact link in the dependent origination ?


If One has to have intention first following by attention , then , attention is not in the five aggregates ?
:reading:

Kurplunk
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:03 am

Re: MN 43: What is meaning by "his faculties are exceptionally clear"?

Post by Kurplunk » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:51 pm

2. Many many suttas, such as MN 9, SN 12.67, MN 38, MN 43, SN 22.53, MN 111, etc, say consciousness & nama-rupa arise & cease together and that there cannot be a consciousness without perception & feeling; i.e., there cannot be a consciousness without at least nama.
Right, but consciousness = vinnana = vi (dividied) nanna (knowing). Whereas, when people ask if one is conscious during these attainments I think they are asking if one knows or is aware. So that isn't vinnana but rather it is nanna they are asking about. It makes sense to me that the pinnacle of undivided knowing (nanna) is knowing; As opposed to unknowing.

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 2762
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: MN 43: What is meaning by "his faculties are exceptionally clear"?

Post by DooDoot » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:29 am

Kurplunk wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:51 pm
Right, but consciousness = vinnana = vi (divided) nanna (knowing).
It appears the above meaning doesn't exist in the Pali suttas; even though the term "vinnana" may have these linguist roots, particularly in Sanskrit. In Pali, vinnana seems generally regarded as something 'neutral', i.e., it can arise with suffering or can arise without suffering (refer to end of MN 38 or MN 148).

pegembara
Posts: 1289
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:39 am

Re: MN 43: What is meaning by "his faculties are exceptionally clear"?

Post by pegembara » Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:56 pm

Consider this-
"Is "vinnana" permanent or impermanent?" — "Impermanent, venerable sir." — "Now is what is impermanent pleasant or painful?" — "Painful, venerable sir." — "Now is what is impermanent, what is painful since subject to change, fit to be regarded thus: 'This is mine, this is I, this is my self'"? — "No, venerable sir."

"Any kind of "vinnana" whatever, whether past, future or presently arisen, whether gross or subtle, whether in oneself or external, whether inferior or superior, whether far or near must, with right understanding how it is, be regarded thus: 'This is not mine, this is not I, this is not my self.'

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .nymo.html
“Then, friends, it occurred to me: ‘Here, by nonattention to all signs, a bhikkhu enters and dwells in the signless concentration of mind. This is called the signless concentration of mind.’
Doesn't the passage suggest that there is awareness of the cessation/nirodha of objects of sights, sounds, smells, tastes, touch and mind? At that point in time, nibbana is the object(the faculties are clear). This obviously doesn't apply to the dead(faculties scattered).
“And what, bhikkhus, is the path leading to the unconditioned?
Signless concentration….
SN 43.12

The one whose defilements are dried up,
Who’s not attached to food,
Whose resort is the liberation
That is signless and empty:
Their track is hard to trace,
Like that of birds in the sky.
Thag 1.92

And what, venerable sir, is the signless liberation of mind? Here, with nonattention to all signs, a bhikkhu enters and dwells in the signless concentration of mind. This is called the signless liberation of mind.
SN 41.7

https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/un ... -13/4573/2
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

SarathW
Posts: 9997
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: MN 43: What is meaning by "his faculties are exceptionally clear"?

Post by SarathW » Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:28 am

What is the difference between a person under anesthetic and in Nirodha Samapatti?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Lankamed and 8 guests