Star Water Blessing...

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Tenma
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Star Water Blessing...

Post by Tenma » Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:43 am

So at the moment from September 9 to 15, the Rishi stars are up and all the waters of the world are blessed at this time. Does anyone know a prayer, praise, mantra, etc. to Phra Mae Thorani in honor of her protecting the Buddha and being a "water goddess" who purifies? As she is the goddess of the earth and has control over water, her waters are sacred, but I would like to add on to the blessing(preferably without trying to burn candles, incense, whatnot).

dharmacorps
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Re: Star Water Blessing...

Post by dharmacorps » Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:44 am

Is this a Theravada Buddhist ritual? I've never heard of it. :anjali:

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Crazy cloud
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Re: Star Water Blessing...

Post by Crazy cloud » Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:03 am

A lot of people that say the love this practice, is sadly arrogant to the value of simple rituals like a bow, or anjahli or or. Being a westerner myself, I often feel a bit ashamed of our western swollen heads when mingle and "chit chat, or what "they" say "discuss Dhamma". I think i let all of my scared swollen western perfectionists kalyana mittas behind, and join the fun and practice where it lives, not where exploding swollen heads reverberating in my head when sitting in perfect lotus with my western teravada swat team of nearly enlightened toppynose's

:tongue:

I love all rituals!!!!!

AND IT IS PURE DHAMMA IN MY EMPTY HEAD!!!!
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters

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Sam Vara
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Re: Star Water Blessing...

Post by Sam Vara » Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:18 am

dharmacorps wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:44 am
Is this a Theravada Buddhist ritual? I've never heard of it. :anjali:
I couldn't find anything by Googling. The "Rishi stars" are apparently part of Vedic and Tibetan mythology, and of course the use of water in blessing is common to many religious traditions.

Tenma
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Re: Star Water Blessing...

Post by Tenma » Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:42 pm

Sam Vara wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:18 am
dharmacorps wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:44 am
Is this a Theravada Buddhist ritual? I've never heard of it. :anjali:
I couldn't find anything by Googling. The "Rishi stars" are apparently part of Vedic and Tibetan mythology, and of course the use of water in blessing is common to many religious traditions.
Does anyone know how bless water in Theravada style or whatnot? I know Vajrayana, but I'm curious to see Theravada or Phra Mae Thorani practices in this case.

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Sam Vara
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Re: Star Water Blessing...

Post by Sam Vara » Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:24 pm

Tenma wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:42 pm
Sam Vara wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:18 am
dharmacorps wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:44 am
Is this a Theravada Buddhist ritual? I've never heard of it. :anjali:
I couldn't find anything by Googling. The "Rishi stars" are apparently part of Vedic and Tibetan mythology, and of course the use of water in blessing is common to many religious traditions.
Does anyone know how bless water in Theravada style or whatnot? I know Vajrayana, but I'm curious to see Theravada or Phra Mae Thorani practices in this case.
I googled "Theravada monks blessing water", and there are a couple of videos. Venerable Dhammanando or another monk on DW might be able to give more details as to what is actually going on!

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Dhammanando
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Re: Star Water Blessing...

Post by Dhammanando » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:42 pm

Gāthā Mae Thoranee

tassā kesīsato yathāgaṅga sotaṃ pavattanti
mārasenā patiṭṭhātuṃ asakkonto palāyiṃsu
pāramitānubhāvena mārasenā parājitā
disodisaṃ palāyanti vidaṃsenti asesato.

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Dhammanando
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Re: Star Water Blessing...

Post by Dhammanando » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:49 pm

If you read French, the gāthā is discussed by Grégory Kourilsky on pp. 197-99 of his doctoral thesis:

La place des ascendants familiaux dans le bouddhisme des Lao

www.theses.fr/2015EPHE5032.pdf

Tenma
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Re: Star Water Blessing...

Post by Tenma » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:25 pm

Dhammanando wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:49 pm
If you read French, the gāthā is discussed by Grégory Kourilsky on pp. 197-99 of his doctoral thesis:

La place des ascendants familiaux dans le bouddhisme des Lao

www.theses.fr/2015EPHE5032.pdf
The link isn't working, but thank you! Is there any other mantra or offerings needed or will the prayer suffise?

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Dhammanando
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Re: Star Water Blessing...

Post by Dhammanando » Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:51 am

Tenma wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:25 pm
Dhammanando wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:49 pm
If you read French, the gāthā is discussed by Grégory Kourilsky on pp. 197-99 of his doctoral thesis:

La place des ascendants familiaux dans le bouddhisme des Lao

www.theses.fr/2015EPHE5032.pdf
The link isn't working, but thank you! Is there any other mantra or offerings needed or will the prayer suffise?
Sorry, this is the corrected link:

https://www.theses.fr/2015EPHE5032.pdf

I'm afraid I don't know anything about the matter beyond what's stated in Kourilsky's thesis. I've spent most of my years in the North of Thailand, but the custom you're asking about seems to belong to the Northeast and Laos.

Anyhow, this is the Kourilsky's French translation of the gāthā:

“De ses cheveux [l’eau] s’écoulait comme le flot des eaux du Gange. Alors, l’armée de Māra, incapable de tenir, prit la fuite. Par la puissance des Perfections (parāmitā), l’armée de Māra fut défaite. Ayant été détruit, elle se dispersa dans toutes les directions, sans qu’il n’en reste rien.”

["From her [i.e., Mother Thoranee's] hair [water] flowed like the stream of water of the Ganges. Then, the army of Māra, unable to hold, fled. By the power of the perfections (parāmitā) Māra's army was defeated, having been destroyed and scattered in all directions, with nothing left."]

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mikenz66
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Re: Star Water Blessing...

Post by mikenz66 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:32 pm

dharmacorps wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:44 am
Is this a Theravada Buddhist ritual? I've never heard of it. :anjali:
Theravada Buddhist rituals are many and varied...

Phra Mae Thorani is intimately connected with the "touching the earth" iconography, and the universal ritual of pouring water during a blessing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phra_Mae_Thorani

:heart:
Mike

dharmacorps
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Re: Star Water Blessing...

Post by dharmacorps » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:33 pm

Interesting! I suppose I have seen the statues but thought it was a vajrayana thing that had been transplanted into thervada temples :anjali:

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mikenz66
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Re: Star Water Blessing...

Post by mikenz66 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:04 am

Yes, well we do sometimes see a view expressed that anything not in the canonical texts and early commentaries is not "Theravada". This, in my opinion, undervalues the richness of the living tradition...

:heart:
Mike

thomaslaw
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Re: Star Water Blessing...

Post by thomaslaw » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:44 am

Hi

The worship of Phra Mae Thorani seems meaningfully presented in the Theravada Buddhist culture. But so far I do not see any Buddhist temples place Phra Mae Thorani image together with the Buddha image in the main chanting hall. Does anyone devotionally place Phra Mae Thorani image in your home altar together with the Buddha image? I wonder how they are correctly put together in the altar (home or temple).

Kind regards,
Thomas

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Dhammanando
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Re: Star Water Blessing...

Post by Dhammanando » Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:46 am

thomaslaw wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:44 am
Does anyone devotionally place Phra Mae Thorani image in your home altar together with the Buddha image?
On a Thai multi-tiered home shrine one might find almost anything placed on the lower tiers below the Buddha statue. For example:

* Pictures of one's parents and favourite ajahns.
* Brass mini-stupas containing the ashes of deceased relatives.
* An offering tray loaded with the owner's collection of Buddha amulets.
* Hindu gods.
* Jīvaka Komārabhacca, Saṇkaccaya, Hotei, Kwan Yin, etc.
* Photos of the King and Queen, silver and gold parasols and other monarchy-related emblems.
* Scraps of cloth with mantras and maṇḍalas drawn on them.
* A photo of the manager or captain of whatever football team the owner supports.

And of course Mae Thoranee. Actually it needn't be her — any old mermaid will do. Many Thais in Iceland and Denmark have scaled-down replicas of Copenhagen's Den lille Havfrue on their shrines.

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