MN Session 7 - MN 135. Cūḷakammavibhanga Sutta

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Re: MN Session 7 - MN 135. Cūḷakammavibhanga Sutta

Post by retrofuturist » Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:11 am

Greetings venerable Pesala,
Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:There is no room for blind chance or moral impotency in Buddhism.
Perhaps, but there are niyamas that function without direct causality from kamma.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Re: MN Session 7 - MN 135. Cūḷakammavibhanga Sutta

Post by Jechbi » Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:12 am

retrofuturist wrote:... there are niyamas that function without direct causality from kamma.
Sure, but aren't they still ordered and not random?
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.

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Re: MN Session 7 - MN 135. Cūḷakammavibhanga Sutta

Post by retrofuturist » Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:17 am

Greetings Jechbi,
Jechbi wrote:
retrofuturist wrote:... there are niyamas that function without direct causality from kamma.
Sure, but aren't they still ordered and not random?
Yes, but all five aren't consequences of our actions.

For example, the "faulty genes" mentioned earlier on need not be attributed to kamma niyama.... why not to bija niyama (the physical organic order)?

So yes, it's not "blind chance" that these things happen. Of course there are causes and effects, but I think it's inaccurate to conclusively say about someone who is crippled or has some unfortunately genetic condition that it's a result of kamma niyama. But that is what many people say...

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Re: MN Session 7 - MN 135. Cūḷakammavibhanga Sutta

Post by jcsuperstar » Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:59 pm

i'm gonna shut this one now, i guess if you have any more questions about kamma and how it works we can start a new thread..
jc :anjali:
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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