Kula Sutta AN 4.258. Families.

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Kula Sutta AN 4.258. Families.

Post by mikenz66 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:19 am

Kula Sutta AN 4.258. Families.
Translated by Bhante Sujato

https://suttacentral.net/an4.258

“Mendicants, when families don’t stay wealthy for long, it’s always for one or more of these four reasons. What four? They don’t look for what’s lost; they don’t fix old things; they eat and drink too much; or they put an unethical man or woman in charge. When families don’t stay wealthy for long, it’s always for one or more of these four reasons.

When families do stay wealthy for long, it’s always for one or more of these four reasons. What four? They look for what’s lost; they fix old things; they eat and drink in moderation; and they put an ethical man or woman in charge. When families do stay wealthy for long, it’s always for one or more of these four reasons.”

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Re: Kula Sutta AN 4.258. Families.

Post by mikenz66 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:30 am

Bhikkhu Bodhi notes that SN 42.9 has eight causes for the destruction of families.
https://suttacentral.net/sn42.9
“There are, headman, eight causes and conditions for the destruction of families. Families come to destruction on account of the king, or on account of thieves, or on account of fire, or on account of water; or they do not find what they have put away; or mismanaged undertakings fail; or there arises within a family a wastrel who squanders, dissipates, and fritters away its wealth; and impermanence is the eighth.
[Bhikkhu Bodhi translation]
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Re: Kula Sutta AN 4.258. Families.

Post by mikenz66 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:09 pm

rightviewftw wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:42 pm
Thanks for posting this one, i remembered it wrong.
Would you care to elaborate?

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Re: Kula Sutta AN 4.258. Families.

Post by Sam Vara » Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:23 pm

Many thanks. I like this little sutta because, obviously, it speaks directly to those of us with families; and because it focuses on simple, practical steps which can be taken by those who wish to prosper. It's interesting that none of those steps lead to the oppression or impoverishment of other families. I like to think that the Buddha was so concerned with universal happiness and flourishing that he took the time and trouble to address such issues, and it's a good antidote to the "Bhikkhuification of lay life" which we sometimes see.

What I find a bit puzzling is why the Buddha gave this teaching to a group of mendicants who had left family life. It might be, of course, that there are parallels with the homeless life, and that he intended the recommendations to figuratively refer to the monastic path. But that's far from obvious, either within the sutta, or in the ones it is grouped with.

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Re: Kula Sutta AN 4.258. Families.

Post by mikenz66 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:31 pm

Sam Vara wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:23 pm
What I find a bit puzzling is why the Buddha gave this teaching to a group of mendicants who had left family life. It might be, of course, that there are parallels with the homeless life, and that he intended the recommendations to figuratively refer to the monastic path.
Good point. Perhaps it's an error in the transmission. The SN 42.9 is spoken to lay people, and has some overlap, though of course comparing these lists should make one wary of concluding that "These are the only reasons for XXX".
Sam Vara wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:23 pm
But that's far from obvious, either within the sutta, or in the ones it is grouped with.
Though it's not alway the case, suttas in the AN are often only connected by the number, in this case 4...

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Re: Kula Sutta AN 4.258. Families.

Post by rightviewftw » Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:08 am

mikenz66 wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:09 pm
rightviewftw wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:42 pm
Thanks for posting this one, i remembered it wrong.
Would you care to elaborate?

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Mike
Not much to it, how remembered it was that the four things made families stay together. I remember sharing it on Facebook and i am not the only one it seems;
Image
I wonder what happened there but in case i was foolishly misrepresenting the Dhamma and a transgression was made by me i am very sorry and glad you turned it around.

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Re: Kula Sutta AN 4.258. Families.

Post by mikenz66 » Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:26 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:08 am
Not much to it, how remembered it was that the four things made families stay together. I remember sharing it on Facebook and i am not the only one it seems;
No problem with that. You just quoted half the sutta. In the AN different versions use different numbering, because, as in this case, it is somewhat arbitrary whether you call that one or two suttas.

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