AN 9.13 Mahākoṭṭhita [Koṭṭhika] Sutta.

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AN 9.13 Mahākoṭṭhita [Koṭṭhika] Sutta.

Post by mikenz66 » Sat Nov 26, 2016 10:56 pm

AN 9.13 Mahākoṭṭhita [Koṭṭhika] Sutta.
Translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu


https://suttacentral.net/en/an9.13

Then Ven. Maha Kotthita went to Ven. Sariputta and exchanged courteous greetings with him. After an exchange of friendly greetings & courtesies, he sat to one side. As he was sitting there, he said to Ven. Sariputta, “Is it the case, friend Sariputta, that the holy life is lived under the Blessed One with the purpose, ‘May an action [whose result] is to be experienced in the here-&-now be turned into an action [whose result] is to be experienced by me in a future life?’”

“No, my friend.”

“Then is it the case, friend Sariputta, that the holy life is lived under the Blessed One with the purpose, ‘May an action [whose result] is to be experienced in a future life be turned into an action [whose result] is to be experienced by me in the here-&-now?’”

“No, my friend.”

“Then is it the case, friend Sariputta, that the holy life is lived under the Blessed One with the purpose, ‘May an action [whose result] is to be experienced as pleasure be turned into an action [whose result] is to be experienced by me as pain?’”

“No, my friend.”

“Then is it the case, friend Sariputta, that the holy life is lived under the Blessed One with the purpose, ‘May an action [whose result] is to be experienced as pain be turned into an action [whose result] is to be experienced by me as pleasure?’”

“No, my friend.”

“Then is it the case, friend Sariputta, that the holy life is lived under the Blessed One with the purpose, ‘May an action [whose result] is to be experienced when fully ripened be turned into an action [whose result] is to be experienced by me when not fully ripened?’”

“No, my friend.”

“Then is it the case, friend Sariputta, that the holy life is lived under the Blessed One with the purpose, ‘May an action [whose result] is to be experienced when not fully ripened be turned into an action [whose result] is to be experienced by me when fully ripened?’”

“No, my friend.”

“Then is it the case, friend Sariputta, that the holy life is lived under the Blessed One with the purpose, ‘May an action [whose result] is to be experienced as a great deal be turned into an action [whose result] is to be experienced by me as next to nothing?’”

“No, my friend.”

“Then is it the case, friend Sariputta, that the holy life is lived under the Blessed One with the purpose, ‘May an action [whose result] is to be experienced as next to nothing be turned into an action [whose result] is to be experienced by me as a great deal?’”

“No, my friend.”

“Then is it the case, friend Sariputta, that the holy life is lived under the Blessed One with the purpose, ‘May an action [whose result] is to be experienced be turned into an action [whose result] is not to be experienced by me?’”

“No, my friend.”

“Then is it the case, friend Sariputta, that the holy life is lived under the Blessed One with the purpose, ‘May an action [whose result] is not to be experienced be turned into an action [whose result] is to be experienced by me?’”

“No, my friend.”

“Now, friend Sariputta, when you are asked, ‘Is it the case that the holy life is lived under the Blessed One with the purpose, “May an action [whose result] is to be experienced in the here-&-now be turned into an action [whose result] is to be experienced by me in a future life?"’ you say, ‘No, my friend.’ When asked, ‘Is it the case that the holy life is lived under the Blessed One with the purpose, “May an action [whose result] is to be experienced in a future life be turned into an action [whose results] is to be experienced by me in the here-&-now"... “May an action [whose result] is to be experienced as pleasure be turned into an action [whose result] is to be experienced by me as pain?"... “May an action [whose result] is to be experienced as pain be turned into an action [whose result] is to be experienced by me as pleasure?"... “May an action [whose result] is to be experienced when fully ripened be turned into an action [whose result] is to be experienced by me when not fully ripened?"... “May an action [whose result] is to be experienced when not fully ripened be turned into an action [whose result] is to be experienced by me when fully ripened?"... “May an action [whose result] is to be experienced as a great deal be turned into an action [whose result] is to be experienced by me as next to nothing?"... “May an action [whose result] is to be experienced as next to nothing be turned into an action [whose result] is to be experienced by me as a great deal?"... “May an action [whose result] is to be experienced be turned into an action [whose result] is not to be experienced by me?"... “May an action [whose result] is not to be experienced be turned into an action [whose result] is to be experienced by me?"’ you say, ‘No, my friend.’ So, then, with what purpose is the holy life lived under the Blessed One?”

“The holy life, my friend, is lived under the Blessed One with the purpose of knowing, seeing, attaining, realizing, & breaking through to what has been unknown, unseen, unattained, unrealized, and not broken through to.”

“And what, friend Sariputta, is the unknown, unseen, unattained, unrealized and not broken-through-to that the holy life is lived under the Blessed One with the purpose of knowing, seeing, attaining, realizing, & breaking through to?”

“‘This is stress,’ my friend; ‘This is the origination of stress,’ my friend; ‘This is the cessation of stress,’ my friend; ‘This is the path of practice leading to the cessation of stress,’ my friend, is the unknown, unseen, unattained, unrealized and not broken-through-to that the holy life is lived under the Blessed One with the purpose of knowing, seeing, attaining, realizing, & breaking through to. This is the unknown, unseen, unattained, unrealized and not broken-through-to that the holy life is lived under the Blessed One with the purpose of knowing, seeing, attaining, realizing, & breaking through to.”

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Re: AN 9.13 Mahākoṭṭhita [Koṭṭhika] Sutta.

Post by mikenz66 » Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:00 pm

Notes by Bhikkhu Bodhi.

“Now, friend Sāriputta, is the spiritual life lived under the
Blessed One for this purpose: ‘Let kamma [whose result] is to
be experienced in this life become kamma [whose result] I am
to experience in a future life’?”
  • Mp glosses samparāyavedanīyaṃ as “kamma ripening in the next
    existence” (dutiye attabhāve vipaccanakakammaṃ).
“Now, friend Sāriputta, is the spiritual life lived under the
Blessed One for this purpose: ‘Let kamma [whose result] is to
be experienced as pleasant become kamma [whose result] I am
to experience as painful?’”
  • I translate following Be and Ee, which read dukkhavedaniyaṃ.
    Ce has sukhavedaniyaṃ, presumably because of the difficulty in
    seeing why the practitioner would want his kamma to be felt as
    painful.
“Now, friend Sāriputta, is the spiritual life lived under the
Blessed One for this purpose: ‘Let my kamma [whose result] is
to be experienced when it has matured become kamma [whose
result] I am to experience while it has not matured’?”
  • Mp glosses paripakkavedanīyaṃ as laddhavipākavāraṃ, “[kamma]
    that has gained the chance to yield results.” Its opposite,
    aparipakkavedanīyaṃ, is aladdhavipākavāraṃ, “[kamma] that has
    not gained the chance to yield results.”
“Now, friend Sāriputta, is the spiritual life lived under the
Blessed One for this purpose: ‘Let kamma [whose result] is
to be experienced become kamma [whose result] I am not to
experience’?”
  • Mp-ṭ: “Kamma to be experienced is [kamma] that has not yet started
    to ripen but which is capable of producing results when there is an
    assemblage of other conditions. Kamma not to be experienced is clas-
    sified as ahosikamma, etc., which is incapable of ripening because
    of a deficiency of conditions” (vedanīyan ti paccayantarasamavāye
    vipākuppādanasamatthaṃ, na āraddhavipākam eva; avedanīyan ti
    paccayavekallena vipaccituṃ asamatthaṃ ahosikammādibhedaṃ).
    The concept of ahosikamma, kamma that never obtains a chance
    to ripen, is derived from Paṭis II 78, 2–10 (Be §234). See too CMA
    205.
“Then is the spiritual life lived under the Blessed One for this
purpose: ‘Let kamma [whose result] is not to be experienced
become kamma [whose result] I am to experience’?”
“Certainly not, friend.”
  • Mahākoṭṭhita asks Sāriputta a total of ten questions and receives
    ten replies. It thus seems peculiar that this sutta is included
    among the Nines, yet there is no other indication of a numerical
    framework than the number of questions asked and answered.

Discussion of the shortcomings of the AN split to here:
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 54#p404664

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