SN 9.1 Viveka Sutta. Seclusion.

[mikenz66]

SN 9.1 PTS: S i 197 CDB i 294 Viveka Sutta: Seclusion
translated from the Pali by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

A deva comes to the aid of a forest monk whose mind had been wandering during meditation.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

I have heard that on one occasion a certain monk was dwelling among the Kosalans in a forest thicket. Now at that time, as he had gone to spend the day [in the thicket], he was thinking unskillful thoughts, connected with the household life.

Then the devata inhabiting the forest thicket, feeling sympathy for the monk, desiring his benefit, desiring to bring him to his senses, approached him and addressed him with this verse:

• "Desiring seclusion
  you've entered the forest,
  and yet your mind
  goes running outside.
  You, a person:
  subdue your desire for people.
  Then you'll be happy, free
  from passion.
  Dispel discontent,
  be mindful.
  Let me remind you
  of that which is good —
  for the dust
  of the regions below
  is hard to transcend.
  Don't let the dust
  of the sensual
  pull
  you
  down.
  
  As a bird
  spattered with dirt
  sheds the adhering dust with a shake,
  so a monk
  — energetic & mindful —
  sheds the adhering dust."

The monk, chastened by the devata, came to his senses.

[phil]

Hi all

Very interested in citta viveka. I guess the well known teaching to make for ( of?) oneself an island refers to citta viveka, seclusion of the mind. Kaya viveka, physical seclusion, seems pretty straight forward. Obviously as this discourse makes clear, kaya viveka without citta viveka is pretty meaningless.

[phil]

Hi all

Interesting commentarial note to SN 45:2, on fivefold seclusion, see p. 1891 n.7 of the SN anthology.

1. Seclusion temporarily by insight.2. Seclusion temporarily by jhanas 3. Seclusion by eradication by the supramundane path 4. Seclusion by subsiding, permanently by fruition and 5. Seclusion permanently in nibbana.

Leaving aside the higher 3, interesting that seclusion by insight is listed before seclusion by jhanas.

How do you understand "seclusion by insight" that is not yet supramundane?

[mikenz66]

Interesting observation, Phil. Isn't there something similar in the Satipatthana commentary?

"Here, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu lives contemplating the body in the body, ardent, clearly comprehending (it) and mindful (of it), having overcome, in this world, covetousness and grief; he lives contemplating the feelings in the feelings, ardent, clearly comprehending (them) and mindful (of them), having overcome, in this world, covetousness and grief; he lives contemplating consciousness in consciousness, ardent, clearly comprehending (it) and mindful (of it), having overcome in this world covetousness and grief; he lives contemplating mental objects in mental objects, ardent, clearly comprehending (them) and mindful (of them), having overcome, in this world, covetousness and grief."

Commentary: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... l#synopsis

• After the pointing out of the things that make up the condition connected with the Arousing of Mindfulness through body-contemplation, there is the pointing out of the things that make up the condition which should be abandoned in this practice with the words, "having overcome, in this world, covetousness and grief" = Vineyya loke abhijjhadomanassam.
  ...
  In the passage beginning with "ardent," Right Exertion [sammappadhana] is stated by energy [atapa]; the subject of meditation proper in all circumstances [sabbatthika kammatthana] or the means of protecting the subject of meditation [kammatthana pariharana upaya], is stated by mindfulness and clear comprehension [sati sampajañña]; or the quietude that is obtained [patiladdha samatha] by way of the contemplation on the body [kayanupassana] is stated by mindfulness; insight [vipassana] by clear comprehension; and the fruit of inner culture [bhavana phala] through the overcoming of covetousness and grief [abhijjha domanassa vinaya].
  ...

Mike

[gavesako]

We can apply investigation of the body (kāyagatāsati) in order to develop the feeling of seclusion (viveka) – seclusion through the experience of not assuming that we have ownership over the body. We try to see the body simply as a manifestation of the elements and aggregates (khandhā) that exist in line with nature.
What we are – male or female or anything at all – is differentiated and characterized by the names and conventions of society, but in essence, people’s experiences are the same. The suffering people experience is the same. The happiness or unhappiness, the feeling of satisfaction or disappointment is the same. This is where we need to focus.
If we realize that our own body and the bodies of other people are essentially the same, we can experience a state of mind that is conducive to the stilling of desire and craving. In the end there aren’t any differences between people. We will start seeing other people in an unprejudiced way.
The feeling that somebody is superior, inferior or on the same level as someone else won’t arise. We don’t assume we are any better or worse than others, or equal to them either. Through maintaining this attitude towards ourselves we cultivate an awareness that is not blocked by the conceit and bias of self-importance.
This is the way we practice kāyagatāsati. If we attain to seclusion, we can call it kāyaviveka, seclusion of the body.
Having a body is like a material object we can use, like the almsbowl for example. The almsbowl is merely a container to receive food for our use at mealtime. It is just a vessel. Similarly, our body is just a vessel for inquiry, for giving rise to an understanding of reality.

— Ajahn Liem, Just A Vessel

[NotMe]

Thank you, Ven. Gavesako, and Ajahn Liem: "This is where we need to focus."

Contentment with out dis.

Right Release is the ultimate seclusion from the All of the All, the ultimate refinement of seclusion - nibbana.
Below that is the mind's release - citta seclusion.
Below that is the body's release - kaya seclusion.
It is one point of view at least.

In reverse order:
"If we realize that our own body and the bodies of other people are essentially the same, we can experience a state of mind that is conducive to the stilling of desire and craving." I put the "self" label on any other and keep the most valuable label "not self" on this other. 'Value' added as a teaching tool - it is all fabrication. Any thing i find wrong with my "self", that is, any thing found discomforting about the "ocean of humanity" out there, is brought in to "not self", contemplated until an understanding of "not self" is attained - and all conflict is resolved. I cherish my "self" more than any other possession, although it is all on a temporary loan basis.

Ditto for the mind - study the currents of the collective mind's thoughts - terrorists - eco threats yada yada - resolve 'em.

Then embrace all of it in one loving embrace and let it be - let it go.

metta