AN 3.66 Salha Sutta

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AN 3.66 Salha Sutta

Post by mikenz66 » Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:07 am

AN 3.66 PTS: A i 193 Thai 3.67 Salha Sutta: To Salha
translated from the Pali by Ñanamoli Thera


The arahant Ven. Nandaka engages the layman Salha in a dialogue that ranges from elementary principles all the way to the nature of arahantship.

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Thus I heard. On one occasion the venerable Nandaka was living at Savatthi in the Eastern Monastery, Migara's Mother's Palace. Then Migara's grandson, Salha, and Pekhuniya's grandson, Rohana, went to the venerable Nandaka, and after salutation they sat down at one side. When they had done so the venerable Nandaka said to Migara's grandson Salha:

"Come, Salha, do not be satisfied with hearsay or with tradition or with legendary lore or with what has come down in scriptures or with conjecture or with logical inference or with weighing evidence or with a liking for a view after pondering it or with someone else's ability or with the thought 'The monk is our teacher.' When you know in yourself 'These things are unprofitable, liable to censure, condemned by the wise, being adopted and put into effect, they lead to harm and suffering,' then you should abandon them. What do you think? Is there greed?" — "Yes, venerable sir." — "Covetousness is the meaning of that, I say. Through greed a covetous man kills breathing things, takes what is not given, commits adultery, and utters falsehood, and he gets another to do likewise. Will that be long for his harm and suffering?" — "Yes, venerable sir." — "What do you think, is there hate?" — "Yes, venerable sir." — "Ill-will is the meaning of that, I say. Through hate a malevolent man kills breathing things... Will that be long for his harm and suffering?" — "Yes, venerable sir." — "What do you think? Is there delusion?" — "Yes, venerable sir." — "Ignorance is the meaning of that, I say. Through ignorance a deluded man kills breathing things... Will that be long for his harm and suffering?" — "Yes, venerable sir."

"What do you think? Are these things profitable or unprofitable?" — "Unprofitable, venerable sir." — "Reprehensible or blameless?" — "Reprehensible, venerable sir." — "Condemned or commended by the wise?" — "Condemned by the wise, venerable sir." — "Being adopted and put into effect, do they lead to harm and suffering, or do they not, or how does it appear to you in this case?" — "Being adopted and put into effect, venerable sir, they lead to harm and suffering. So it appears in this case." — "Now that was the reason why I told you 'Come Salha, do not be satisfied with hearsay... When you know in yourself "These things are unprofitable," then you should abandon them.'

"Come Salha, do not be satisfied with hearsay... or with the thought, 'The monk is our teacher.' When you know in yourself: 'These things are profitable, blameless, commended by the wise, being adopted and put into effect they lead to welfare and happiness,' then you should practice them and abide in them. What do you think? Is there non-greed?" — "Yes, venerable sir." — "Uncovetousness is the meaning of that, I say. Through non-greed an uncovetous man does not kill breathing things or take what is not given or commit adultery or utter falsehood, and he gets another to do likewise. Will that be long for his welfare and happiness?" — "Yes, venerable sir." — "What do you think? Is there non-hate?" — "Yes, venerable sir." — "Non ill-will is the meaning of that, I say. Through non ill-will an unmalevolent man does not kill breathing things... Will that be long for his welfare and happiness?" — "Yes, venerable sir." — "What do you think? Is there non-delusion?" — "Yes, venerable sir." — "True knowledge is the meaning of that, I say. Through non-delusion a man with true knowledge does not kill breathing things... Will that be long for his welfare and happiness?" — "Yes, venerable sir."

"What do you think? Are these things profitable or unprofitable?" — "Profitable, venerable sir." — "Reprehensible or blameless?" — "Blameless, venerable sir." — "Condemned or commended by the wise?" — "Commended by the wise, venerable sir." — "Being adopted and put into effect, do they lead to welfare and happiness, or do they not, or how does it appear to you in this case?" — "Being adopted and put into effect, venerable sir, they lead to welfare and happiness. So it appears to us in this case." — "Now that was the reason why I told you 'Come Salha, do not be satisfied with hearsay... when you know in yourself "These things are profitable..." then you should practice them and abide in them.'

"Now a disciple who is ennobled [by reaching the Noble Path], who has rid himself in this way of covetousness and ill-will and is undeluded, abides with his heart imbued with loving-kindness extending over one quarter, likewise the second quarter, likewise the third quarter, likewise the fourth quarter, and so above, below, around, and everywhere, and to all as to himself; he abides with his heart abundant, exalted, measureless in loving-kindness without hostility or ill-will extending over the all-encompassing world. He abides with his heart imbued with compassion... gladness... equanimity extending over the all-encompassing world. Now he understands this state of contemplation in this way: 'There is this [state of Divine Abiding in he who has entered the Stream]. There is what has been abandoned [which is the amount of greed, hate and delusion exhausted by the stream-entry Path]. There is a superior goal [which is arahantship]. And there is an ultimate escape from this whole field of perception.'

"When he knows and sees in this way, his heart is liberated from the taint of sensual desire, from the taint of being, and from the taint of ignorance. When liberated [by reaching the arahant Path], there comes thereafter the knowledge that it is liberated. He knows that birth is ended, that the Divine Life has been lived out, that what had to be done is done, and that there is no more of this to come. He understands thus: 'Formerly there was greed which was bad, and now there is none, which is good. Formerly there was hate, which was bad, and now there is none, which is good. Formerly there was delusion, which was bad, and now there is none, which is good.' So here and now in this very life he is parched no more [by the fever of craving's thirst], his fires of greed, hate and delusion are extinguished and cooled out; experiencing bliss, he abides [for the remainder of his last life-span] divinely pure in himself."

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Re: AN 3.66 Salha Sutta

Post by mikenz66 » Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:20 am

Note from Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation:

“Then, Sāḷha, that noble disciple, who is thus devoid of longing, devoid of ill will, unconfused, clearly comprehending, ever mindful, dwells pervading one quarter with a mind imbued with loving-kindness … with a mind imbued with compassion … with a mind imbued with altruistic joy … with a mind imbued with equanimity, likewise the second quarter, the third quarter, and the fourth quarter. Thus above, below, across, and everywhere, and to all as to himself, he dwells pervading the entire world with a mind imbued with equanimity, vast, exalted, measureless, without enmity, without ill will.

“He then understands thus: ‘There is this; there is the inferior; there is the superior; there is a further escape from whatever is involved with perception.’ [462] When he knows and sees thus, his mind is liberated from the taint of sensuality, from the taint of existence, and from the taint of ignorance. When it is liberated there comes the knowledge: ‘[It’s] liberated.’ He understands: ‘Destroyed is birth, the spiritual life has been lived, what had to be done has been done, there is no more coming back to any state of being.’

“He understands thus: ‘Formerly, there was greed; that was unwholesome. Now there is none; thus this is wholesome. Formerly, there was hatred; that was unwholesome. Now there is none; thus this is wholesome. Formerly, there was delusion; that was unwholesome. Now there is none; thus this is wholesome.’

“Thus in this very life he dwells hungerless, quenched and cooled, experiencing bliss, having himself become divine.” [463]

Notes

[462] Atthi idaṃ, atthi hīnaṃ, atthi paṇītaṃ, atthi imassa saññāgatassa uttari nissaraṇaṃ. This is also at MN 7.17, I 38,31–32, where it also follows the four divine abodes. Mp says “there is this” refers to the five aggregates, the truth of suffering; “the inferior” to the truth of the origin; “the superior” to the truth of the path; and “a further escape from whatever is involved with perception” to nibbāna, the truth of cessation.

[463] Brahmabhūtena attanā viharati. The whole phrase is also at 4:198, II 206,2–4, and MN 51.5, I 341,11–13. It seems to be a deliberate attempt by the Buddha to co-opt Upanishad terminology for the purposes of his own teaching.

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Re: AN 3.66 Salha Sutta

Post by mikenz66 » Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:25 am


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Re: AN 3.66 Salha Sutta

Post by Kim OHara » Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:48 am

Thanks, Mike.
I remember reading somewhere (probably on DW :tongue: ) that the Kalamasutta was hardly known and not highly regarded in Asian Buddhism but here is a good chunk of it again. :thinking:

On another point - there seems to be a really big jump from
"Now that was the reason why I told you 'Come Salha, do not be satisfied with hearsay... when you know in yourself "These things are profitable..." then you should practice them and abide in them.'
to
"Now a disciple who is ennobled [by reaching the Noble Path], who has rid himself in this way of covetousness and ill-will and is undeluded, abides with his heart imbued with loving-kindness
... jumping nimbly across a few years (or decades or lifetimes?) of patient work.
:jawdrop:

Or is there another way of understanding the transition?

:namaste:
Kim

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Re: AN 3.66 Salha Sutta

Post by BillTheLizard » Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:21 pm

Thank you Mike for bringing this up!
Last edited by BillTheLizard on Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: AN 3.66 Salha Sutta

Post by mikenz66 » Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:49 pm

Kim OHara wrote:Thanks, Mike.
I remember reading somewhere (probably on DW :tongue: ) that the Kalamasutta was hardly known and not highly regarded in Asian Buddhism but here is a good chunk of it again. :thinking:
Yes, though Bhikkhu Bodhi's notes to the Kalama Sutta http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=22973 indicate that the agama parallel does not have the passage on the ten inadequate sources of knowledge ("Do not go by...").

:anjali:
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Re: AN 3.66 Salha Sutta

Post by mikenz66 » Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:57 pm

Kim OHara wrote: On another point - there seems to be a really big jump from
"Now that was the reason why I told you 'Come Salha, do not be satisfied with hearsay... when you know in yourself "These things are profitable..." then you should practice them and abide in them.'
to
"Now a disciple who is ennobled [by reaching the Noble Path], who has rid himself in this way of covetousness and ill-will and is undeluded, abides with his heart imbued with loving-kindness
... jumping nimbly across a few years (or decades or lifetimes?) of patient work.
:jawdrop:

Or is there another way of understanding the transition?
Yes, it does seem to skip quite a bit of work... We do see that in other places. For example, there is a sudden jump in the [url=http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .amar.html][Karaniya Metta Sutta/url] from practising metta to liberated wisdom:
By not holding to fixed views,
The pure-hearted one,
having clarity of vision,
Being freed from all sense desires,
Is not born again into this world.
:anjali:
Mike

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Re: AN 3.66 Salha Sutta

Post by equilibrium » Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:46 am

Salha & Rohana & Nandaka chatting.

(Paragraph 2):
"When you know in yourself, These things are unprofitable"
This is where truth is to be found, directly experienced and not those listed directly before the above quote.

(Paragraph 3):
"When you know in yourself, These things are unprofitable"
Nandaka asked Salha in this paragraph, "What do you think? Are these things profitable or unprofitable?" Even though Salha could answer them directly, he does not know because it was based on hearsay earlier in this very conversation.

(Paragraph 4):
"When you know in yourself: These things are profitable"
Practice and abide in non-greed, non-hate & non-delusion. This is by taking action by doing so one can benefit not only self but others too.

(Paragraph 5):
"When you know in yourself These things are profitable...then you should practice them and abide in them."
Proves the point that by practice and abide in non-greed, non-hate and non-delusion, they are profitable. This is directly experienced and known by yourself.

(Paragraph 6):
Reaching the noble path.
By rid of himself in this way (greed, hate, delusion).....by removing.
Self and others. This is the process of one thinking and doing things for others rather than for the self.....become selfless.
4 quarters meaning the 4 successive attainments.
Superior goal (arahantship), ultimate escape is possible.

(Paragraph 7):
heart is liberated. (heart here isn't the physical heart)
knowledge.....that you will "know by yourself".....as noted in the conversation.
Experiencing bliss.....the experience.
This is what truth is all about, directly experienced here and now.

Until that "knowing", one will never "know"!

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