AN 3.54 Paribbājaka Sutta: A Wanderer

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AN 3.54 Paribbājaka Sutta: A Wanderer

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AN 3.54 [AN i 157] Paribbājaka Sutta: A Wanderer
Translated by Bhikkhu Bodhi


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Then a certain brahmin wanderer approached the Blessed One … and said to him:

“Master Gotama, it is said: ‘A directly visible Dhamma, a directly visible Dhamma.’ In what way is the Dhamma directly visible, immediate, inviting one to come and see, applicable, to be personally experienced by the wise?”

(1) “Brahmin, one excited by lust, overcome by lust, with mind obsessed by it, intends for his own affliction, for the affliction of others, or for the affliction of both, and he experiences mental suffering and dejection. But when lust is abandoned, he does not intend for his own affliction, for the affliction of others, or for the affliction of both, and he does not experience mental suffering and dejection. One excited by lust, overcome by lust, with mind obsessed by it, engages in misconduct by body, speech, and mind. But when lust is abandoned, he does not engage in misconduct by body, speech, and mind. One excited by lust, overcome by lust, with mind obsessed by it, does not understand as it really is his own good, the good of others, or the good of both. But when lust is abandoned, he understands as it really is his own good, the good of others, and the good of both. It is in this way, brahmin, that the Dhamma is directly visible … to be personally experienced by the wise.

(2) “One full of hate, overcome by hatred …

(3) “One who is deluded, overcome by delusion, with mind obsessed by it, intends for his own affliction, for the affliction of others, or for the affliction of both, and he experiences mental suffering and dejection. But when delusion is abandoned, he does not intend for his own affliction, for the affliction of others, or for the affliction of both, and he does not experience mental suffering and dejection. One who is deluded, overcome by delusion, with mind obsessed by it, engages in misconduct by body, speech, and mind. But when delusion is abandoned, he does not engage in misconduct by body, speech, and mind. One who is deluded, overcome by delusion, with mind obsessed by it, does not understand as it really is his own good, the good of others, or the good of both. But when delusion is abandoned, he understands as it really is his own good, the good of others, and the good of both. It is in this way, too, that the Dhamma is directly visible, immediate, inviting one to come and see, applicable, to be personally experienced by the wise.”

“Excellent, Master Gotama! … Let Master Gotama consider me a lay follower who from today has gone for refuge for life.”

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Kim OHara
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Re: AN 3.54 Paribbājaka Sutta: A Wanderer

Post by Kim OHara »

No argument there. :tongue:
But it made me wonder about the 'three poisons'.
Here they are lust, hatred and delusion. Elsewhere I've seen them as desire or greed, anger or aversion, and ignorance or foolishness. Do we have a translation problem here, as we do with "dukkha"?

:namaste:
Kim

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Re: AN 3.54 Paribbājaka Sutta: A Wanderer

Post by mikenz66 »

Yes, there are various translations. As the second paragraph I quote below indicates, indeed, there is the same problem as translating dukkha: these words carry a much wider range of meaning than a single English word can capture, so dukkha can range from "unsatisfactoriness" to "suffering" and dosa from "the faintest trace of ill-humor up to the highest pitch of hate and wrath."

http://what-buddha-said.net/library/Bud ... #m%C5%ABla
Mūla: 'roots', also called hetu, see: paccaya 1, are those conditions which through their presence determine the actual moral quality of a intentional state cetanā and the consciousness and mental properties associated therewith, in other words, the quality of kamma. There are 6 such roots, 3 kammically advantageous and 3 disadvantageous roots, viz.,: greed, hate, confusion lobha dosa, moha and greedlessness, hatelessness, unconfusedness alobha, adosa, amoha.

In A. III, 68 it is said that greed arises through unwise reflection on an attractive object, hate through unwise reflection on a repulsive object. Thus, greed lobha or rāga comprises all degrees of 'attractedness' towards an object from the faintest trace of a longing thought up to grossest egoism, whilst hatred dosa comprises all degrees of 'repulsion' from the faintest trace of ill-humor up to the highest pitch of hate and wrath.
...
:anjali:
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Re: AN 3.54 Paribbājaka Sutta: A Wanderer

Post by culaavuso »

Kim OHara wrote: Here they are lust, hatred and delusion. Elsewhere I've seen them as desire or greed, anger or aversion, and ignorance or foolishness. Do we have a translation problem here, as we do with "dukkha"?
The three poisons in this sutta are rāga (translated as passion, greed, lust, etc.), dosa (translated as hatred, aversion, anger, etc.), and moha (translated as delusion, ignorance, dullness, etc.).

There are also other Pāḷi words that are translated to those same English words. For example lobha may be translated as "greed", byāpāda may be translated as "anger", avijjā may be translated as "ignorance".

Familiarity with a particular translator and the context of the sutta can often provide clues as to which word(s) will be found when consulting the original text.

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Re: AN 3.54 Paribbājaka Sutta: A Wanderer

Post by Kim OHara »

Thank you, Mike and culaavuso. Maybe I will try to get used to using the Pali terms, as I have with dukkha, as a reminder to myself that none of the translations are quite accurate.

:thinking:
Kim

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