AN 4.174 Kotthita Sutta:To Kotthita

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vinasp
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Re: AN 4.174 Kotthita Sutta:To Kotthita

Post by vinasp » Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:11 pm

Hi theend,

Quote: - "I don't see that the "remainderless fading away and cessation of the six bases for contact" equals death. Instead, in case of the living arahat, the senses have ceased to be bases for contact."

That is the alternative interpretation, which I also follow, So I agree with you. But I wanted to explore the implications of the other view.

Many people seem to think that the six bases (salayatana) are the actual senses. Of course, they can also be understood in other ways.

I believe that the bhikkhu who is an 'ordinary man' (puthujjana) does understand the six bases as the actual senses. The noble disciple has a different interpretation.

But the question here, is whether the 'six bases for contact' are to be considered as equivalent to the 'six bases', or not.

I would argue that the two terms are interchangeable and mean the same thing. So the cessation of the six bases for contact could only be understood by the puthujjana in terms of physical death.

So a puthujjana would understand Sariputta's final statement to mean that arahants attain Nibbana after death.

It is only in the case of the death of the Arahant that there is a cessation of the six bases for contact, in the understanding of the puthujjana.

Regards, Vincent.

theend
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Re: AN 4.174 Kotthita Sutta:To Kotthita

Post by theend » Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:29 pm

vinasp wrote:I believe that the bhikkhu who is an 'ordinary man' (puthujjana) does understand the six bases as the actual senses. The noble disciple has a different interpretation.
I would not say that the six bases are not the actual senses. As I see it, the difference lies in regarding the senses as "I" or "mine". For the puthujjana, the notion that I see or that seeing is mine has priority over the fact that there is an (actual) eye, and because of that, he wrongly views that eye as something that fits into his notion of being the seer, i.e. he regards the eye as something "internal", belonging to himself, something that is "build into" his ability to see.

The noble disciple no longer has this wrong view: He no longer takes for granted that experience is mine, so he is not forced to view the senses in a way that would maintain the appropriation.

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Re: AN 4.174 Kotthita Sutta:To Kotthita

Post by Zom » Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:39 pm

Many people seem to think that the six bases (salayatana) are the actual senses. Of course, they can also be understood in other ways.
Thinking that salayatana is not the actual sense bases but something else is... proliferation! :tongue:

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