AN 4.15 Aggapaññatti [Paññatti]Proclamations

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AN 4.15 Aggapaññatti [Paññatti]Proclamations

Post by mikenz66 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:52 pm

AN 4.15 AN ii 17 Aggapaññatti [Paññatti] Proclamations
Translated by Bhikkhu Bodhi


http://suttacentral.net/an4.15/en

(1) “The foremost of those with bodies is Rāhu, lord of the asuras. [643] (2) The foremost of those who enjoy sensual pleasures is King Mandhātā. [644] (3) The foremost of those who exercise authority is Māra the Evil One. (4) In this world with its devas, Māra, and Brahmā, among this population with its ascetics and brahmins, its devas and humans, the Tathāgata, the Arahant, the Perfectly Enlightened One is declared foremost. These are the four proclamations of those who are foremost.”
  • Rāhu is the foremost of those with bodies,
    Mandhātā, of those enjoying sense pleasures;
    Māra is the foremost of rulers,
    blazing with power and glory.

    In this world together with its devas
    above, across, and below,
    as far as the world extends,
    the Buddha is declared foremost.
Notes

[643] Rāhu is the asura chief who abducts the sun and moon, obviously representing the solar and lunar eclipses. See SN 2:9, SN 2:10, I 50–51. DPPN

[644] A primeval king, descended from Mahāsammata, son of Uposatha, and an ancestor of the Sakyans (see DPPN). Mp: “He was reborn among humans when the life span was immeasurable and enjoyed human sense pleasures for a long time, causing a rain of gold to fall whenever he wanted. In the deva world, during the life spans of thirty-six Indras, he enjoyed excellent sensual pleasures."

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Re: AN 4.15 Aggapaññatti [Paññatti]Proclamations

Post by mikenz66 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:55 pm

Exercise for the reader:
Why is Māra described as:
"The foremost of those who exercise authority"?

:anjali:
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Re: AN 4.15 Aggapaññatti [Paññatti]Proclamations

Post by waterchan » Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:17 pm

mikenz66 wrote:Exercise for the reader:
Why is Māra described as:
"The foremost of those who exercise authority"?
Here the Pali which has been rendered as "authority" is ādhipateyyā which means "dominion" or "power". Perhaps this passage alludes to Mara's overwhelming power to tempt people with sense pleasures and lead him astray from the Noble One's path?

Addentum: After reading Bhante's article about Mara as the personification of death, maybe "foremost of those who exercise authority" is a reference to the inescapable force of death?

Which of the above two interpretations make more sense?
quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur
(Anything in Latin sounds profound.)

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Re: AN 4.15 Aggapaññatti [Paññatti]Proclamations

Post by Unrul3r » Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:22 pm

mikenz66 wrote:Exercise for the reader:
Why is Māra described as:
"The foremost of those who exercise authority"?

:anjali:
Mike
Because Māra controls every being by making them fear him. I can see no force so pervasive as fear of death.

:anjali:

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Re: AN 4.15 Aggapaññatti [Paññatti]Proclamations

Post by Sam Vara » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:33 pm

It's nice to learn a little more about Rahu. He gave his name to one of the list of punishments which kings inflict upon malefactors, according to the Culadukkhakkhanda Sutta:
"Again, it is with sensuality for the reason, sensuality for the source... that (men) break into windows, seize plunder, commit burglary, ambush highways, commit adultery, and when they are captured, kings have them tortured in many ways. They flog them with whips, beat them with canes, beat them with clubs. They cut off their hands, cut off their feet, cut off their hands & feet. They cut off their ears, cut off their noses, cut off their ears & noses. They subject them to the 'porridge pot,' the 'polished-shell shave,' the 'Rahu's mouth...."
He sounds a lovely guy, but I'm going to pay my respects and then keep well clear...

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Re: AN 4.15 Aggapaññatti [Paññatti]Proclamations

Post by Cittasanto » Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:39 pm

waterchan wrote:
mikenz66 wrote:Exercise for the reader:
Why is Māra described as:
"The foremost of those who exercise authority"?
Here the Pali which has been rendered as "authority" is ādhipateyyā which means "dominion" or "power". Perhaps this passage alludes to Mara's overwhelming power to tempt people with sense pleasures and lead him astray from the Noble One's path?

Addentum: After reading Bhante's article about Mara as the personification of death, maybe "foremost of those who exercise authority" is a reference to the inescapable force of death?

Which of the above two interpretations make more sense?
I think both too some degree.
but Mara does keep people in samsara through his trickery and temptation so why not a mix of the two.
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Re: AN 4.15 Aggapaññatti [Paññatti]Proclamations

Post by santa100 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:26 am

mikenz66 wrote:Exercise for the reader:
Why is Māra described as:
"The foremost of those who exercise authority"?
AimWell wrote:Various statements are found in the Piṭakas connected with Māra, which have, obviously, reference to Death, the defilements, and the world over which Death and the defilements hold sway. Thus: “Those who can restrain the mind and check its propensities can escape the snares of Māra.”³⁵ “He who delights in objects cognizant to the eye, etc., has gone under Māra’s sway.”³⁶ “He who has attachment is entangled by Māra.”³⁷ “Māra will overthrow him who is unrestrained in his senses, immoderate in his food, idle and weak.”³⁸ “By attaining the Noble Eightfold Path one can be free from Māra.”³⁹ The Saṃyutta Nikāya⁴⁰ records a conversation between Māra and Vajirā. She has attained Arahantship, and tells Māra: “There is no being (satta) here who can come under your control; there is no being but a mere heap of mental formations (suddhasaṅkhārarapuñja).”
So basically Mara is ruling over you, me, and every single sentient being in the six realms except the Buddha and His arahant disciples. Talking about the foremost of those who exercise authority!

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Re: AN 4.15 Aggapaññatti [Paññatti]Proclamations

Post by SarathW » Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:52 am

No doubt Mara is so powerful, but very weak as well. Mara was defeated by many humans!
It is like the gravity. It is very powerful but weak. Human have learn to defy the gravity.
:shrug:
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Re: AN 4.15 Aggapaññatti [Paññatti]Proclamations

Post by mikenz66 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:06 am

Some good replies here. I was thinking of Ajahn Brahm's talk
The invitation of a Brahma
about MN 49 Brahma-nimantanika Sutta: The Brahma Invitation
As I recall, Ajahn Brahm describes Mara as a personfication the "control freak" part of the mind...

See also Ven Thanissaro's introduction: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
In this sutta, the Buddha faces two antagonists: Baka, a brahma who believes that his brahma-attainment is the highest attainment there is; and Mara, who wants (1) to keep Baka under his power by allowing Baka to maintain his deluded opinion, and (2) to prevent the Buddha from sharing his awakened knowledge with others. Of the two, Mara is the more insidious, a point illustrated by the fact that Mara always speaks through someone else and never directly shows his face. (Another interesting point is illustrated by the fact that Mara is the source of the demand that one obey a creator god.)
"Then Mara, the Evil One, taking possession of an attendant of the Brahma assembly, said to me, 'Monk! Monk! Don't attack him! Don't attack him! For this Brahma, monk, is the Great Brahma, the Conqueror, the Unconquered, the All-Seeing, All-Powerful, the Sovereign Lord, the Maker, Creator, Chief, Appointer and Ruler, Father of All That Have Been and Shall Be. There were, monk, before your time, brahmans & contemplatives in the world ...
See also: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 20#p172051

:anjali:
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