AN 10.211 [AN 10.200] Niraya 1 [Nirayasagga 1] Sutta. Hell (1).

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AN 10.211 [AN 10.200] Niraya 1 [Nirayasagga 1] Sutta. Hell (1).

Post by mikenz66 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:15 am

AN 10.211 [AN 10.200] Niraya 1 [Nirayasagga 1] Sutta. Hell (1).
Translated by Bhikkhu Bodhi


https://suttacentral.net/an10.211


“Bhikkhus, possessing ten qualities, one is deposited in hell as if brought there. What ten?

(1) “Here, someone destroys life; he is murderous, bloody-handed, given to blows and violence, merciless to living beings.

(2) “He takes what is not given; he steals the wealth and property of others in the village or forest.

(3)“He engages in sexual misconduct; he has sexual relations with women who are protected by their mother, father, mother and father, brother, sister, or relatives; who are protected by their Dhamma; who have a husband; whose violation entails a penalty; or even with one already engaged.

(4) “He speaks falsehood. If he is summoned to a council, to an assembly, to his relatives’ presence, to his guild, or to the court, and questioned as a witness thus: ‘So, good man, tell what you know,’ then, not knowing, he says, ‘I know,’ or knowing, he says, ‘I do not know’; not seeing, he says, ‘I see,’ or seeing, he says, ‘I do not see.’ Thus he consciously speaks falsehood for his own ends, or for another’s ends, or for some trifling worldly end.

(5) “He speaks divisively. Having heard something here, he repeats it elsewhere in order to divide those people from these; or having heard something elsewhere, he repeats it to these people in order to divide them from those. Thus he is one who divides those who are united, a creator of divisions, one who enjoys factions, rejoices in factions, delights in factions, a speaker of words that create factions.

(6) “He speaks harshly. He utters such words as are rough, hard, hurtful to others, offensive to others, bordering on anger, unconducive to concentration.

(7) “He indulges in idle chatter. He speaks at an improper time, speaks falsely, speaks what is unbeneficial, speaks contrary to the Dhamma and the discipline; at an improper time he speaks such words as are worthless, unreasonable, rambling, and unbeneficial.

(8)“He is full of longing. He longs for the wealth and property of others thus: ‘Oh, may what belongs to another be mine!’

(9) “He has a mind of ill will and intentions of hate thus: ‘May these beings be slain, slaughtered, cut off, destroyed, or annihilated!’

(10) “He holds wrong view and has an incorrect perspective thus: ‘There is nothing given, nothing sacrificed, nothing offered; there is no fruit or result of good and bad actions; there is no this world, no other world; there is no mother, no father; there are no beings spontaneously reborn; there are in the world no ascetics and brahmins of right conduct and right practice who, having realized this world and the other world for themselves by direct knowledge, make them known to others.’

“One possessing these ten qualities is deposited in hell as if brought there.

“Bhikkhus, one possessing ten qualities is deposited in heaven as if brought there. What ten?

(1)“Here, someone, having abandoned the destruction of life, abstains from the destruction of life. With the rod and weapon laid aside, conscientious and kindly, he dwells compassionate toward all living beings.

(2) “Having abandoned the taking of what is not given, he abstains from taking what is not given. He does not steal the wealth and property of others in the village or in the forest.

(3) “Having abandoned sexual misconduct, he abstains from sexual misconduct. He does not have sexual relations with women who are protected by their mother, father, mother and father, brother, sister, or relatives; who are protected by their Dhamma; who have a husband; whose violation entails a penalty; or even with one already engaged.

(4) “Having abandoned false speech, he abstains from false speech. If he is summoned to a council, to an assembly, to his relatives’ presence, to his guild, or to the court, and questioned as a witness thus: ‘So, good man, tell what you know,’ then, not knowing, he says, ‘I do not know,’ or knowing, he says, ‘I know’; not seeing, he says, ‘I do not see,’ or seeing, he says, ‘I see.’ Thus he does not consciously speak falsehood for his own ends, or for another’s ends, or for some trifling worldly end.

(5) “Having abandoned divisive speech, he abstains from divisive speech. Having heard something here, he does not repeat it elsewhere in order to divide those people from these; or having heard something elsewhere, he does not repeat it to these people in order to divide them from those. Thus he is one who reunites those who are divided, a promoter of unity, who enjoys concord, rejoices in concord, delights in concord, a speaker of words that promote concord.

(6) “Having abandoned harsh speech, he abstains from harsh speech. He speaks such words as are gentle, pleasing to the ear, and lovable, as go to the heart, are courteous, desired by many, and agreeable to many.

(7) “Having abandoned idle chatter, he abstains from idle chatter. He speaks at a proper time, speaks truth, speaks what is beneficial, speaks on the Dhamma and the discipline; at a proper time he speaks such words as are worth recording, reasonable, succinct, and beneficial.

(8) “He is without longing. He does not long for the wealth and property of others thus: ‘Oh, may what belongs to another be mine!’

(9) “He is of good will and his intentions are free of hate thus: ‘May these beings live happily, free from enmity, affliction, and anxiety!’

(10) “He holds right view and has a correct perspective thus: ‘There is what is given, sacrificed, and offered; there is fruit and result of good and bad actions; there is this world and the other world; there is mother and father; there are beings spontaneously reborn; there are in the world ascetics and brahmins of right conduct and right practice who, having realized this world and the other world for themselves by direct knowledge, make them known to others.’

“One possessing these ten qualities is deposited in heaven as if brought there.”

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Re: AN 10.211 [AN 10.200] Niraya 1 [Nirayasagga 1] Sutta. Hell (1).

Post by mikenz66 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:21 am

Compare other lists, such as
AN 3.10: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=30273
AN 5.173: https://suttacentral.net/an5.173

See also: http://aimwell.org/DPPN/niraya_sutta.html

There appears to be no difference is between this sutta and AN 10.2.12:
Bhikkhu Bodhi wrote: Except for the abridgment I do not detect any difference between
this sutta and the previous one. I have translated the text just
as it is, additionally abridging only the descriptions of wrong
view and right view. None of the editions says anything about
this. Mp does not comment on the first five suttas in this vagga,
stating that their meaning is clear.
:heart:
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Re: AN 10.211 [AN 10.200] Niraya 1 [Nirayasagga 1] Sutta. Hell (1).

Post by Sam Vara » Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:14 am

mikenz66 wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:15 am
“Bhikkhus, possessing ten qualities, one is deposited in hell as if brought there. What ten?"
As a guide to action, this formulation has the potential to be quite terrifying to ordinary practitioners, especially those from certain Christian backgrounds. It could be interpreted to mean that a solitary infringement, or set of minor lapses, lead one to hell. One might imagine that a huge set of consequences result from relatively minor actions which one has already committed, and which one is (if honest with oneself) likely to commit again. As so often, everything seems to depend on the translation of dhamma. Taking it to mean
a quality or element of behavior or practice according to the Buddha ’s dhamma; a constituent of prescribed practice; an element of the teaching; a doctrine; appropriate and beneficial practice.
(P.E.D.)

it seems reasonable to assume that extreme versions of hell await those who manifest extreme versions of the qualities; and conversely extreme versions of heaven await those whose qualities are good. But there is no indication here as to whether the determining factor here is the seriousness of the dhamma, the duration or pervasiveness, or both. And I'm left pondering the validity of my term "reasonable"...

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Re: AN 10.211 [AN 10.200] Niraya 1 [Nirayasagga 1] Sutta. Hell (1).

Post by DooDoot » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:43 am

The Buddha wrote:
Dasahi (ten), bhikkhave, dhammehi (qualities) samannāgato (possessing) yathābhataṃ (????) nikkhitto (deposited) evaṃ niraye (hell).

Bhikkhus, possessing ten qualities, one is deposited in hell as if brought there.
What actually does this mean? The dictionary appears to say these words only exist in this phrase & the term 'yathābhataṃ' is unclear. Is this a teaching of "instant kamma", i.e., "as soon as you kill you bring hell"? :?:
-bhataṃ is an unexplained α ̔́πας λεγομένον, difficult of analysis because occurring in only one ster. phrase, viz. yathā bhataṃ nikkhitto evaṃ niraye (& sagge) at MN.i.71; SN.iv.325 (where T. has yathāhataṃ, variant reading bhataṃ); AN.i.8, AN.i.105, AN.i.292, AN.i.297; AN.ii.71 AN.ii.83; Iti.12, Iti.14, Iti.26. We have analyzed it as y. bhataṃ in Corr. to pt. 3; vol. ii.100 (“according to his upbringing”), but we should rather deviate from this expln because the P. usage in this case would prefer the nom instead of the (adv.) acc. nt. It remains doubtful whether we should separate yathā or yath’ ābhataṃ Suggestions of a translation are the foll. 1 “as soon as brought or taken” (see Dict. s. v. ābhata); 2 “as one has brought” (merit or demerit); thus taking ābhataṃ as irregular ger. of ā + bhar, translation suggested by the reading āharitvā (yathâharitvā) in the complementary stanzas at Iti.12 & Iti.14; 3 “according to merit or reward,” after Kern’s suggestion, Toevoegselen s.v. to read yathā bhaṭaṃ, the difficulty being that bhaṭa is nowhere found as variant reading of bhata in this phrase; nor that bhaṭa occurs in the meaning of “reward.”
■ There is a strong likelihood of (ā)bhata resembling āhata (āhaṭa?) in meaning “as brought,” on account of, cp. Iti context and reading at SN.iv.325; still the phrase remains not sufficiently cleared up.
■ Seidenstūcker’s translation has been referred to above (under haritvā) as unbefitting.
■ The suspicion of yathābhataṃ being a veiled (corrupted) yathābhūtaṃ has presented itself to us before (see vol. I. under ābhata). The meaning may suggest something like the latter, in as far as “in truth, “surely” is not far off the point. Anyhow we shall have to settle on a meaning like “according to merit”, without being able to elucidate the phrase in all its details.
■ There is another yathābhataṃ in passage… ussavo hoti, yathābhataṃ lasuṇaṃ parikkhayaṃ agamāsi “the garlic diminished as soon as it was brought [ :?: ]” Vin.iv.258. Here ābhata stands in rel. to harāpeti (to have it fetched & brought) and is clearly pp. of ābharati.
Pāli (agamāsi 'he went')
Pituno vacaneneva, Ujjenim-agamāsi so
In accordance with his Father's bidding, having gone to Ujjenī
gam = "to go"; p. 64
Singular Plural
3rd Person agamāsi agamaṃsu (they went)
2nd Person agamā agamittha
1st Person agamāsiṃ agamamhā

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Re: AN 10.211 [AN 10.200] Niraya 1 [Nirayasagga 1] Sutta. Hell (1).

Post by mikenz66 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:17 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:43 am
The Buddha wrote:
Dasahi (ten), bhikkhave, dhammehi (qualities) samannāgato (possessing) yathābhataṃ (????) nikkhitto (deposited) evaṃ niraye (hell).

Bhikkhus, possessing ten qualities, one is deposited in hell as if brought there.
What actually does this mean? The dictionary appears to say these words only exist in this phrase & the term 'yathābhataṃ' is unclear. Is this a teaching of "instant kamma", i.e., "as soon as you kill you bring hell"? :?:
....
You need much more than a dictionary to translate a passage...

However, yes, it's an interesting question, exactly how to interpret the statement.

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