I am very confused about Buddhism. I am wondering if I could state my beliefs and see if anyone could tell me just how and where my beliefs contrast with theravada buddhism? That would be a great starting litmus test to see where I stand in relation to the subject.
I believe that suffering comes from the fact that a person is resisting how things really are. A person is alive in this life for a particular purpose. Whatever that purpose is is up to them. However, a person's purpose is a reflection of what they put their attention and passion into. Everyone has a certain thing that they are most passionate about, and what they are passionate about is what energizes and makes life worth living.
A person is responsible for the life they live. And for discovering their passions. Also, the more you pull to yourself, the more you lose. The more you give away, the more it comes back for you to gain.
Urm.... that's pretty much it. I'm not sure how well that coincides with buddhism or not. I'm counting on one of you guys to tell me how much. Thanks.
Confused about Buddhism
Re: Confused about Buddhism
Greetings El Gallo and welcome to Dhamma Wheel!
You may wish to read the following publication which is an excellent introduction to Theravada:
The Noble Eightfold Path: The Way to the End of Suffering by Bhikkhu Bodhi: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... toend.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This,I hope,will go some way to reduce the confusion you might be experiencing.
Kind regards
Ben
You may wish to read the following publication which is an excellent introduction to Theravada:
The Noble Eightfold Path: The Way to the End of Suffering by Bhikkhu Bodhi: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... toend.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This,I hope,will go some way to reduce the confusion you might be experiencing.
Kind regards
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- dhamma_spoon
- Posts: 145
- Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 2:12 pm
Re: Confused about Buddhism
Hi, El Gallo -
Let's have a conversation !
El Gallo: 'I am wondering if I could state my beliefs and see if anyone could tell me just how and where my beliefs contrast with theravada buddhism? That would be a great starting litmus test to see where I stand in relation to the subject.'
Dhamma Spoon: 'Thank you very much for your kind intention. It is going to be a litmus test for me too.'
El Gallo: 'I believe that suffering comes from the fact that a person is resisting how things really are. ... Everyone has a certain thing that they are most passionate about, and what they are passionate about is what energizes and makes life worth living.'
Dhamma Spoon: 'I think a Buddhist belief about suffering is that it is originated from not knowing how things really are, and because of that ignorance he/she does not know how to abandon (or eliminate) the cause of suffering.'
El Gallo: 'Also, the more you pull to yourself, the more you lose. The more you give away, the more it comes back for you to gain.'
Dhamma Spoon: 'That idea is similar to the Buddhist's idea of unselfish giving (dana). However, the best giving of all (according to the Buddha) is to become a non-returner, who does not come back to this world.'
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Let's have a conversation !
El Gallo: 'I am wondering if I could state my beliefs and see if anyone could tell me just how and where my beliefs contrast with theravada buddhism? That would be a great starting litmus test to see where I stand in relation to the subject.'
Dhamma Spoon: 'Thank you very much for your kind intention. It is going to be a litmus test for me too.'
El Gallo: 'I believe that suffering comes from the fact that a person is resisting how things really are. ... Everyone has a certain thing that they are most passionate about, and what they are passionate about is what energizes and makes life worth living.'
Dhamma Spoon: 'I think a Buddhist belief about suffering is that it is originated from not knowing how things really are, and because of that ignorance he/she does not know how to abandon (or eliminate) the cause of suffering.'
El Gallo: 'Also, the more you pull to yourself, the more you lose. The more you give away, the more it comes back for you to gain.'
Dhamma Spoon: 'That idea is similar to the Buddhist's idea of unselfish giving (dana). However, the best giving of all (according to the Buddha) is to become a non-returner, who does not come back to this world.'
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
A soup spoon does not know the taste of the soup.
A dhamma spoon does not know the taste of the Dhamma!
A dhamma spoon does not know the taste of the Dhamma!
Re: Confused about Buddhism
Hi, El Gallo,
The beginning and end of your belief statement align pretty well with Buddhism but the middle bit bothers me. As soon as we mention 'purpose', we imply some intelligent entity with aims and objectives, don't we? Who or what, in your scheme, is that entity?
Perhaps you can think about that while you follow Ben's excellent suggestion.
Good luck with your search.
Kim
The beginning and end of your belief statement align pretty well with Buddhism but the middle bit bothers me. As soon as we mention 'purpose', we imply some intelligent entity with aims and objectives, don't we? Who or what, in your scheme, is that entity?
Perhaps you can think about that while you follow Ben's excellent suggestion.
Good luck with your search.
Kim
- AlaskanDhamma
- Posts: 52
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:28 pm
- Location: Alaska, USA
Re: Confused about Buddhism
InTheravada Buddhism, there is the basis of our belief system which are the "Four Noble Truths" or the reason for human suffering. They are (simplified) as follows:I believe that suffering comes from the fact that a person is resisting how things really are.
1. Life is Suffering.
2. The origin of this suffering is our attachment to material objects and sensual pleasures.
3. It is possible to cease suffering.
4. There is a path to the end of suffering, which is the "Middle way" or the Noble Eightfold Path( as described above).
There is much literature on the internet about Theravada Buddhism. Much of it is here on the forum. As a beginner, some literature may be far too overwhelming and advanced in topics for your purpose of seeking the basics. Please let us know if we can help you on your search.
Good luck.
"Better than a thousand hollow words, is one word that brings peace." -Buddha
Re: Confused about Buddhism
It would be better to state the first noble truth as "There is Suffering" instead of "Life is Suffering".AlaskanDhamma wrote:InTheravada Buddhism, there is the basis of our belief system which are the "Four Noble Truths" or the reason for human suffering. They are (simplified) as follows:I believe that suffering comes from the fact that a person is resisting how things really are.
1. Life is Suffering.
2. The origin of this suffering is our attachment to material objects and sensual pleasures.
3. It is possible to cease suffering.
4. There is a path to the end of suffering, which is the "Middle way" or the Noble Eightfold Path( as described above).
There is much literature on the internet about Theravada Buddhism. Much of it is here on the forum. As a beginner, some literature may be far too overwhelming and advanced in topics for your purpose of seeking the basics. Please let us know if we can help you on your search.
Good luck.
-
- Posts: 1285
- Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:46 am
- Location: Essex, UK
Re: Confused about Buddhism
... or just 'Dukkha'
Re: Confused about Buddhism
Well El Gallo.....as you can see confusion reigns. But the good news is it can lead to clarity if you keep at it.
adosa
adosa
"To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas" - Dhammapada 183
Re: Confused about Buddhism
Hi El Gallo, to the best of my knowledge, I'll answer as straightforwardly as I can:
This is not strictly in line with Theravadin beliefs. In Theravada, both person and purpose are dependently arisen phenomena (Google "Paticcasamuppada" or "dependent origination" and be ready for months of mind boggling confusion).
If Theravada Buddhism could be said to have any single "purpose" for the practitioners, then it would probably be best described as the "cessation of Dukkha".
This is absolutely in line with Theravada Buddhism. The moral and ethical component of Theravada is called Sila and it strenuously teaches that our thoughts, words and actions have far reaching consequences that we are not only responsible for but come to reap the fruits of in the future.
This could be a vague description of the workings of Kamma but it sounds a little more like Daoism than Buddhism to me.
I hope that helps a little.
This in line with Theravadin beliefs. Dukkha (suffering, unsatisfactoriness, unease) has Upadana (clinging/fuel) and Tanha (craving) as its cause. Digging a little deeper, the root cause of Updana and Tanha is Ignorance (Avijja). It is this ignorance which the noble eightfold path attempts to cut through.El Gallo wrote:I believe that suffering comes from the fact that a person is resisting how things really are.
El Gallo wrote:A person is alive in this life for a particular purpose. Whatever that purpose is is up to them. However, a person's purpose is a reflection of what they put their attention and passion into.
This is not strictly in line with Theravadin beliefs. In Theravada, both person and purpose are dependently arisen phenomena (Google "Paticcasamuppada" or "dependent origination" and be ready for months of mind boggling confusion).
If Theravada Buddhism could be said to have any single "purpose" for the practitioners, then it would probably be best described as the "cessation of Dukkha".
El Gallo wrote:A person is responsible for the life they live.
This is absolutely in line with Theravada Buddhism. The moral and ethical component of Theravada is called Sila and it strenuously teaches that our thoughts, words and actions have far reaching consequences that we are not only responsible for but come to reap the fruits of in the future.
El Gallo wrote:Also, the more you pull to yourself, the more you lose. The more you give away, the more it comes back for you to gain.
This could be a vague description of the workings of Kamma but it sounds a little more like Daoism than Buddhism to me.
I hope that helps a little.
Re: Confused about Buddhism
Thanks for the advice. I am from a cell phone right now, so I won't be typing that much.
I think I have a revised view. The world is impermanent, but people treat it like it is solid. So suffering never stays, and Joy always returns.
I think I'll go read that noble truth thing now.
I think I have a revised view. The world is impermanent, but people treat it like it is solid. So suffering never stays, and Joy always returns.
I think I'll go read that noble truth thing now.
Re: Confused about Buddhism
But joy never stays and suffering always returns, too.
Re: Confused about Buddhism
What is Buddhism? I think Buddha was often asked "who are you? What do you teach?" and apparently, he gave many different answers depending on his audience. Many of his answers and suggestions were retained orally and in writing through various lineages of teachers until today. Since his death, or 'mahaa-parinibbaana' for those who prefer the term, various groups of people have wound up with 'buddhist' teachings that some say 'disagree,' in more or less trivial details, with what Buddha actually taught. Among the oldest recorded suttas is one that I think makes a particularly skillful introduction to buddhist study: the Kalama Sutta, which I will quote from...El Gallo wrote:I am very confused about Buddhism. I am wondering if I could state my beliefs and see if anyone could tell me just how and where my beliefs contrast with theravada buddhism?
----- the Kalamas of Kesaputta said to the Blessed One, "Lord, there are some priests & contemplatives who come to Kesaputta. They expound & glorify their own doctrines, but as for the doctrines of others, they deprecate them, revile them, show contempt for them, & disparage them. And then other priests & contemplatives come to Kesaputta. They expound & glorify their own doctrines, but as for the doctrines of others, they deprecate them, revile them, show contempt for them, & disparage them. They leave us absolutely uncertain & in doubt: Which of these venerable priests & contemplatives are speaking the truth, and which ones are lying?"
[buddha]: "Of course you are uncertain, Kalamas. Of course you are in doubt. When there are reasons for doubt, uncertainty is born. So in this case, Kalamas, don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, 'This contemplative is our teacher.' When you know for yourselves that, 'These qualities are unskillful; these qualities are blameworthy; these qualities are criticized by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to harm & to suffering' — then you should abandon them.
[...]
"When you know for yourselves that, 'These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness' — then you should enter & remain in them."
Thus it was said.-----
There is no need to match all your beliefs to all the various buddhist beliefs out there in order to join our club. Listen, read, reflect, study, "bhavanate," put what you like into practice and leave the rest.
Do try to understand the messages as they were intended; one teaching common to most 'sects' is the Four Noble Truths. I've heard people say that "the First Noble Truth is 'everything is suffering,'" and drop buddhism right there because they think it's bullshit, but really they have added their own meaning. The First Noble Truth concerns dukkha, not suffering, and I'm not convinced the word 'everything' is appropriate.
Now you've heard some teachings and are making decisions, if they decrease suffering...you're a Buddhist.
Re: Confused about Buddhism
^^^^Kenshou wrote:But joy never stays and suffering always returns, too.
- dhamma_spoon
- Posts: 145
- Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 2:12 pm
Re: Confused about Buddhism
Hi, OcTavo and Kenshou -OcTavO wrote:^^^^Kenshou wrote:But joy never stays and suffering always returns, too.
Does the same suffering return time after time, or is it a different one?
A soup spoon does not know the taste of the soup.
A dhamma spoon does not know the taste of the Dhamma!
A dhamma spoon does not know the taste of the Dhamma!
Re: Confused about Buddhism
Nope. Just using "joy" and "suffering" as general terms, not to imply that they are "things" out there somewhere that come to us and leave us repeatedly. When there is this there is that, when there isn't this there isn't that etc., you know the drill.