nibbana

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dhamma_spoon
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Re: nibbana

Post by dhamma_spoon » Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:52 pm

Zom wrote:
Talking about the end and cessation without remainder, isn't that the view of annihilationists?
Where and how is peace felt when there are no longer cognizance and body to feel it?
There he said to the monks, "This nibbana is pleasant, friends. This nibbana is pleasant."
When this was said, Ven. Udayin said to Ven. Sariputta, "But what is the pleasure here, my friend, where there is nothing felt?"
"Just that is the pleasure here, my friend: where there is nothing felt.

(AN 9.34 http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

* * *

"It may happen, Ananda, that Wanderers of other sects will be saying this: 'The recluse Gotama speaks of the Cessation of Perception and Feeling and describes it as pleasure. What is this (pleasure) and how is this (a pleasure)?'
"Those who say so, should be told: 'The Blessed One describes as pleasure not only the feeling of pleasure. But a Tathagata describes as pleasure whenever and whereinsoever it is obtained.'"
(SN 36.19 http://www.vipassana.com/canon/samyutta/sn36-19.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
Hi, Zom (Attention: Fabian and others) -

AN 9.34 seems to say that where there is no feeling, there is pleasure. Do you think so? But can you explain to me, because I do not have a clue.
SN 36-19 translation is not meaningful to me. What does the following quote mean to you : "But a Tathagata describes as pleasure whenever and whereinsoever it is obtained." ?

Thank you very much.

:stirthepot:
A soup spoon does not know the taste of the soup.
A dhamma spoon does not know the taste of the Dhamma!

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Alex123
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Re: nibbana

Post by Alex123 » Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:12 am

dhamma_spoon wrote:
Alex123 wrote:
jajas wrote:what do you think what happens when you are enlightend and die.
The 5 aggregates which are ultimately just stressful cease without remainder, nothing continues, and no new thing originates. Nibbana is the end, it is neither remainder nor start of something new. Peace at last!


The final word is

Cessation
Hi, Alex -

Talking about the end and cessation without remainder, isn't that the view of annihilationists?
Where and how is peace felt when there are no longer cognizance and body to feel it? :shock:

Dhamma_spoon :stirthepot:
As Fabian and thereductor have correctly stated, because ultimately no "one" is annihiliated it is not annihilation.


Only suffering (or potential to it) has ceased. As you know, everything is ultimately included in Dukkha. So Nibbana without remainder is final cessation of all suffering.



"Pleasant feeling, bhikkhus, should be seen as painful;" Sukhā, bhikkhave, vedanā dukkhato daṭṭhabbā -SN 36.5(5)
"Whatever is felt is included in suffering." yaṃ kiñci vedayitaṃ taṃ dukkhasmi’nti - SN 36.11(1)
"All formations are stressful." Sabbe saṅkhārā dukkhā’’ti , Dhp 278
As for your two quotes the pleasure is absence of suffering. The "pleasure" isn't meant to be a feeling in that context. It is peace that comes when EVERYTHING has ceased. Even the most refined citta (viññāṇaṃ anidassanaṃ, call it as you will) has a tiny bit of dukkha and I don't want it.


With metta,

Alex
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

chandrafabian
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Re: nibbana

Post by chandrafabian » Wed Aug 11, 2010 5:49 am

Alex123 wrote:what do you think what happens when you are enlightend and die.
"Pleasant feeling, bhikkhus, should be seen as painful;" Sukhā, bhikkhave, vedanā dukkhato daṭṭhabbā -SN 36.5(5)
"Whatever is felt is included in suffering." yaṃ kiñci vedayitaṃ taṃ dukkhasmi’nti - SN 36.11(1)
"All formations are stressful." Sabbe saṅkhārā dukkhā’’ti , Dhp 278

As for your two quotes the pleasure is absence of suffering. The "pleasure" isn't meant to be a feeling in that context. It is peace that comes when EVERYTHING has ceased. Even the most refined citta (viññāṇaṃ anidassanaṃ, call it as you will) has a tiny bit of dukkha and I don't want it.


With metta,

Alex
Dear Alex,

I think the simile is like this: The peaceful mind is like we feel very inconvenient, in a very crowded place, and then all of a sudden this crowd dissappear altogether, leaving us alone and peaceful.

:anjali:

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