Are gods bored and can they meditate?

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TRobinson465
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Re: Are gods bored and can they meditate?

Post by TRobinson465 »

tamdrin wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:03 am "Tushita Heaven
兜率天・覩史多天 (Skt; Jpn Tosotsu-ten or Toshita-ten) The Tushita Heaven. This is also Sanskrit and means “contentment”. This is the Heaven of Contentment. There are inner and outer courts in the Tushita Heaven. The inner court is where Maitreya Bodhisattva now lives, the outer court is where most heavenly beings dwell. The three forms of disasters cannot reach the inner court of the Tushita Heaven but the outer court of the Tushita Heaven will be destroyed by the three forms of disasters"


http://www.chinabuddhismencyclopedia.co ... ita_Heaven
Devas arent bored but they can get bored. In this sutta it devas who are at the end of thier lifespan no longer delight in thier celestial wealth.

https://suttafriends.org/sutta/itv83/

I have read this being described this as feeling bored at the end of their lifespan.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"At Varanasi, in the Deer Park at Isipatana, the Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

"Go forth, monks, for the good of the many, for the happiness of the many, out of compassion for the world, for the welfare, the good and the happiness of gods and men. Let no two of you go in the same direction." - First Khandhaka, Chapter 11, Vinaya.
MrLearner
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Re: Are gods bored and can they meditate?

Post by MrLearner »

Thanks for all the replies. They are all very nice.

@Robinson: Nice sutta. Thanks
@Doot: Thanks for the detailed response
@rhino: It is not my birthday but, thanks for the wishes.

Another thing I want to clarify is, many have pointed that god realms are also suffering, because there also happiness is eventually going to come to an end. My question is let's say there is a god realm, where you have happiness forever and you are forever an god, wouldn't that also be suffering because you will eventually be bored wit the happiness. So whatever the way you look at it, suffering is inevitable in life.
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rhinoceroshorn
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Re: Are gods bored and can they meditate?

Post by rhinoceroshorn »

Greetings
In this sutta from Deva Saṃyutta, a deva praises the Buddha for (re)discovering jhānas.

As the rest of this section of Saṃyutta Nikāya, this sutta features a short talk between the Buddha and a deva. Pañcālacaṇḍa is a deva.

Image
Without resistance in all four directions,
content with whatever you get,
enduring troubles with no dismay,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.
Sutta Nipāta 1.3 - Khaggavisana Sutta
Image
But if they hit you with a stick...?"
"...I will think, 'These people are very civilized, in that they don't hit me with a knife.'..."
"But if they hit you with a knife...?"
"...I will think, 'These people are very civilized, in that they don't take my life with a sharp knife.'..."
SN35.88
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rhinoceroshorn
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Re: Are gods bored and can they meditate?

Post by rhinoceroshorn »

Hey confusedlayman, here is the response.
It didn't occur to me before. First jhāna devas can't feel aversion since aversion is suppressed while in jhāna. :D

Image
Without resistance in all four directions,
content with whatever you get,
enduring troubles with no dismay,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.
Sutta Nipāta 1.3 - Khaggavisana Sutta
Image
But if they hit you with a stick...?"
"...I will think, 'These people are very civilized, in that they don't hit me with a knife.'..."
"But if they hit you with a knife...?"
"...I will think, 'These people are very civilized, in that they don't take my life with a sharp knife.'..."
SN35.88
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Are gods bored and can they meditate?

Post by Mahabrahma »

Even on the higher material planetaey systems that belong to the Gods (there are ones of pure Spirit too, but this is a more advanced subject matter), lifespans are billions and trillions of years longer, and senses can be delighted in and gratified hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of times more than that of the average humans on this earthly planet. There is however, great peace and Spirituality on the higher planets where such beings dwell and this produces an easier entrance into Enlightenment. One doesn't have to suffer to be given the proper Spiritual Teachings to attain Buddhahood. And also, all the while, many high beings expand their consciousness to simultaneously take birth on this planet, or on this one, or many similar ones, while still staying on a higher planet in a Godly Realm in order to maintain the life of a God as well as help those on the intermediary or lower planets with the compassion and Metta that they have from higher planets. There are many Enlightened beings on higher planets and in the Heavens above.
tamdrin
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Re: Are gods bored and can they meditate?

Post by tamdrin »

Mahabrahma wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:53 am Even on the higher material planetaey systems that belong to the Gods (there are ones of pure Spirit too, but this is a more advanced subject matter), lifespans are billions and trillions of years longer, and senses can be delighted in and gratified hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of times more than that of the average humans on this earthly planet. There is however, great peace and Spirituality on the higher planets where such beings dwell and this produces an easier entrance into Enlightenment. One doesn't have to suffer to be given the proper Spiritual Teachings to attain Buddhahood. And also, all the while, many high beings expand their consciousness to simultaneously take birth on this planet, or on this one, or many similar ones, while still staying on a higher planet in a Godly Realm in order to maintain the life of a God as well as help those on the intermediary or lower planets with the compassion and Metta that they have from higher planets. There are many Enlightened beings on higher planets and in the Heavens above.
That's nice. Are you talking from a Mahayana perspective?
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confusedlayman
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Re: Are gods bored and can they meditate?

Post by confusedlayman »

Mahabrahma wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:53 am Even on the higher material planetaey systems that belong to the Gods (there are ones of pure Spirit too, but this is a more advanced subject matter), lifespans are billions and trillions of years longer, and senses can be delighted in and gratified hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of times more than that of the average humans on this earthly planet. There is however, great peace and Spirituality on the higher planets where such beings dwell and this produces an easier entrance into Enlightenment. One doesn't have to suffer to be given the proper Spiritual Teachings to attain Buddhahood. And also, all the while, many high beings expand their consciousness to simultaneously take birth on this planet, or on this one, or many similar ones, while still staying on a higher planet in a Godly Realm in order to maintain the life of a God as well as help those on the intermediary or lower planets with the compassion and Metta that they have from higher planets. There are many Enlightened beings on higher planets and in the Heavens above.
there cannot be two simultaneous parallel living of same single entity
dont think
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confusedlayman
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Re: Are gods bored and can they meditate?

Post by confusedlayman »

rhinoceroshorn wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:24 pm Greetings
In this sutta from Deva Saṃyutta, a deva praises the Buddha for (re)discovering jhānas.

As the rest of this section of Saṃyutta Nikāya, this sutta features a short talk between the Buddha and a deva. Pañcālacaṇḍa is a deva.

Image
hey rhino,

so 4 jhanas were not practised by sage of indian astetic tradition or brahmins?
dont think
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Are gods bored and can they meditate?

Post by Mahabrahma »

tamdrin wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:12 am
Mahabrahma wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:53 am Even on the higher material planetaey systems that belong to the Gods (there are ones of pure Spirit too, but this is a more advanced subject matter), lifespans are billions and trillions of years longer, and senses can be delighted in and gratified hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of times more than that of the average humans on this earthly planet. There is however, great peace and Spirituality on the higher planets where such beings dwell and this produces an easier entrance into Enlightenment. One doesn't have to suffer to be given the proper Spiritual Teachings to attain Buddhahood. And also, all the while, many high beings expand their consciousness to simultaneously take birth on this planet, or on this one, or many similar ones, while still staying on a higher planet in a Godly Realm in order to maintain the life of a God as well as help those on the intermediary or lower planets with the compassion and Metta that they have from higher planets. There are many Enlightened beings on higher planets and in the Heavens above.
That's nice. Are you talking from a Mahayana perspective?
I think the perspective is Universal throughout Buddhism. I think that it is understood in Buddhist cosmology how the intermediary, lower, and higher planetary realms work. And there is a great deal of influence from the Vedas in Buddhism as well, and there is full validity in such understandings because even Buddha Himself took from the Vedas to develop and talk about Buddhist cosmology. I think that also to understand such things one has to meditate themselves on reincarnation, life in the Saha world, and liberation as well as Mahaparinirvana. One has to meditate also on who they are. In Buddhism we take so much knowledge from understanding our own lives, and as we figure out who we are we can start to figure out the world around us. So my perspective is Theravada, Mahayana, and also Vedic because I do not detach Spiritual things that I have learned from who I am, because I am a Spiritual Being. I don't believe that there are two, or three vehicles, lesser or greater, I simply believe in the Buddhism that Buddha taught which is the one Law of the one vehicle, and that is and always has been and will be for everyone, Theravada or Mahayana, or both, I believe them to be one.
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Are gods bored and can they meditate?

Post by Mahabrahma »

confusedlayman wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:32 am
Mahabrahma wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:53 am Even on the higher material planetaey systems that belong to the Gods (there are ones of pure Spirit too, but this is a more advanced subject matter), lifespans are billions and trillions of years longer, and senses can be delighted in and gratified hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of times more than that of the average humans on this earthly planet. There is however, great peace and Spirituality on the higher planets where such beings dwell and this produces an easier entrance into Enlightenment. One doesn't have to suffer to be given the proper Spiritual Teachings to attain Buddhahood. And also, all the while, many high beings expand their consciousness to simultaneously take birth on this planet, or on this one, or many similar ones, while still staying on a higher planet in a Godly Realm in order to maintain the life of a God as well as help those on the intermediary or lower planets with the compassion and Metta that they have from higher planets. There are many Enlightened beings on higher planets and in the Heavens above.
there cannot be two simultaneous parallel living of same single entity
Actually yes there can, in fact as many as infinite, but this is a very deep subject matter. Later on in your Spiritual Life this will become a very important issue for you to follow.
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Are gods bored and can they meditate?

Post by Mahabrahma »

For example, the whole non-self meditation can be a very powerful way to open up this type of consciousness. Have you ever heard the Buddhist saying, "If there is no Self, there is no Other."?
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confusedlayman
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Re: Are gods bored and can they meditate?

Post by confusedlayman »

Mahabrahma wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:13 am For example, the whole non-self meditation can be a very powerful way to open up this type of consciousness. Have you ever heard the Buddhist saying, "If there is no Self, there is no Other."?
never heard
dont think
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cappuccino
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Re: Are gods bored and can they meditate?

Post by cappuccino »

Mahabrahma wrote:
On Self, No Self, and Not-self
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Are gods bored and can they meditate?

Post by Mahabrahma »

cappuccino wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:33 am
Mahabrahma wrote:
On Self, No Self, and Not-self
The realizations on if there is a Self or if there isn't a Self is dependant on how one perceives their own consciousness. It isn't incorrect for someone to say that there is a Self based on a certain type of inclusive meditation on the continuation of their consciousness, or if they hold the belief in a soul and want to call that the Self, and it also isn't incorrect to say that there is no Self if one transcends the limitations of normal consciousness and practices powerful Vipassana meditation of detachment to views of what they see as their Self. Both states of mind are Spiritual and reflect a genuine conscious perspective and originate on how one decides to view their consciousness. The truth is that both states of mind are possible. Buddha didn't answer a lot of direct questions because of many held wrong views back during His time, even when there was a clear answer, and often didn't answer because He wanted people to come to their own conclusions, such as for example, on questions such as whether He was God, or whether there was a God or not, a very famous one He very expertly avoided answering while still brining many to the complete truth and full Enlightenment.
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cappuccino
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Re: Are gods bored and can they meditate?

Post by cappuccino »

Mahabrahma wrote: and it also isn't incorrect to say that there is no Self
no self is the opposite extreme of self


the middle of not-self is correct


in terms of this teaching
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