Emptiness

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woodsman
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Emptiness

Post by woodsman »

Hello,

Can someone tell me why the Theravada doesn't seem to focus on 'Emptiness' like for instance the Tibetan schools do? It seems pivotal to me that our understanding of 'reality' is fundamentally flawed.

Thanks

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Zom
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Re: Emptiness

Post by Zom »

Because tibetan schools make something out of nothing. All of them declare eternalist views.

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Nicolas
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Re: Emptiness

Post by Nicolas »

The Theravada school focuses on emptiness a lot. It just usually calls it anattā (anātman).
Suññataloka Sutta (SN 35.85) wrote: “Venerable sir, it is said, ‘Empty is the world, empty is the world.’ In what way, venerable sir, is it said, ‘Empty is the world’?”

“It is, Ānanda, because it is empty of self and of what belongs to self that it is said, ‘Empty is the world.’”

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confusedlayman
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Re: Emptiness

Post by confusedlayman »

woodsman wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 3:21 pm
Hello,

Can someone tell me why the Theravada doesn't seem to focus on 'Emptiness' like for instance the Tibetan schools do? It seems pivotal to me that our understanding of 'reality' is fundamentally flawed.

Thanks
Emptiness is a term for non self and not a thing by itself. It is there in access to insight. There is a pdf written by sariputta about emptiness I don’t know the name .
Find a tree and practice jhana or dont regret later- Buddha
Something exist, dont exist, both exist and non exist, neither exist nor dont exist .. all these four possibilities are wrong- Nagarjuna
Find a dhamma companion or roam alone like rhinoceros in the wild- Buddha
If you are not happy even after following 8NP then you are doing it wrong- CL (confused layman)

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SDC
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Re: Emptiness

Post by SDC »

confusedlayman wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 4:43 pm
There is a pdf written by sariputta...
Sariputta out there using Adobe like, "One day this will land on the interwebz."

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confusedlayman
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Re: Emptiness

Post by confusedlayman »

SDC wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 4:56 pm
confusedlayman wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 4:43 pm
There is a pdf written by sariputta...
Sariputta out there using Adobe like, "One day this will land on the interwebz."
Instruction of sariputta which available as pdf .. sorry my eng not good
Find a tree and practice jhana or dont regret later- Buddha
Something exist, dont exist, both exist and non exist, neither exist nor dont exist .. all these four possibilities are wrong- Nagarjuna
Find a dhamma companion or roam alone like rhinoceros in the wild- Buddha
If you are not happy even after following 8NP then you are doing it wrong- CL (confused layman)

befriend
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Re: Emptiness

Post by befriend »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lionsr ... water/amp/ A good essay on the meaning of theravadan emptiness
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.

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SDC
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Re: Emptiness

Post by SDC »

confusedlayman wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 5:22 pm
SDC wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 4:56 pm
confusedlayman wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 4:43 pm
There is a pdf written by sariputta...
Sariputta out there using Adobe like, "One day this will land on the interwebz."
Instruction of sariputta which available as pdf .. sorry my eng not good
Your English is GOOD. I just couldn't resist the opening. :tongue:

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SDC
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Re: Emptiness

Post by SDC »

Crucial and explicit usage of emptiness in SN 22.95 and SN 35.85 - indeed with reference to not-self. So it is right at center.

I think it is a case of Theravada, historically, giving more attention to anatta because it appears with a much higher frequency (in the suttas) and is just a far more explicit description of what experience is empty of.

Additionally, interpretations of "emptiness" tend to carry connotations of deniability of things, a notion the suttas clearly reject when it comes to describing Self and aggregates (SN 22.47, MN 44).

Anatta encompasses the spirit of the term and then some, so I think it deserves the priority.

Dan74
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Re: Emptiness

Post by Dan74 »

Emptiness is definitely in the suttas. And dependent origination is the basis of it.

As for the difference with Mahayana/Vajrayana, the main difference lies in the method to realise it.

Emptiness is probably the most misunderstood teaching in Buddhism, so less mention of it is sometimes better.
_/|\_

befriend
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Re: Emptiness

Post by befriend »

The Thai affiliated ajahns like Ajahn chah Ajahn sumedho Ajahn Amaro talk about it often here's a beautiful video about nibbana and how to incline the mind toward it Ajahn Amaro talks about Ajahn chah saying in a room there's a ceiling a floor and walls but emptiness is the space between these things this is nibbana. In my limited understanding of theravadan zen and Tibetan they all have emptiness and there the same practice of just relaxed sitting and feeling the peaceful ease of being. And eventually the mind likes the peace and it blossoms more and more.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.

pegembara
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Re: Emptiness

Post by pegembara »

The Phena Sutta deals with emptiness or insubstantiality just like the Tibetan sand mandala.
Form is like a glob of foam;
feeling, a bubble;
perception, a mirage;
fabrications, a banana tree;
consciousness, a magic trick —
this has been taught
by the Kinsman of the Sun.
However you observe them,
appropriately examine them,
they're empty, void
to whoever sees them
appropriately.

To him — seeing it, observing it, & appropriately examining it — it would appear empty, void, without substance: for what substance would there be ..

"Seeing thus, the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones grows disenchanted with form, disenchanted with feeling, disenchanted with perception, disenchanted with fabrications, disenchanted with consciousness. Disenchanted, he grows dispassionate. Through dispassion, he's released. With release there's the knowledge, 'Released.' He discerns that 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for this world.'"

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
Other examples:
Whatever is seen, heard, sensed or clung to,
is esteemed as truth by other folk,

Midst those who are entrenched in their own views
being 'Such' I hold none as true or false.

This barb I beheld, well in advance,
whereon mankind is hooked, impaled,

'I know, I see `tis verily so'---- no such clinging
for the Tathàgatas.

Kalakarama Sutta
The World : See it as a bubble, see it as a mirage: one who regards the world this way the King of Death doesn't see.

Dhamapada 13.170
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

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Pondera
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Re: Emptiness

Post by Pondera »

In Theravāda “emptiness” is used in this context:

“the practitioner views the skhandas as a poison; a cancer; etcetera; an emptiness; not self.”

There’s no real positive connotation to “emptiness” in the suttas with the exception of that one MN sutta which states:

“This forest is empty of the sights and sounds of the village; etcetera...”

The “concept” of emptiness is an invention of Nagarjuna. Where it gathers strength in the Madhyamika school.

“Emptiness” is a Mahayana strain of thought, IMO.

woodsman
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Re: Emptiness

Post by woodsman »

SDC wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 4:56 pm
confusedlayman wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 4:43 pm
There is a pdf written by sariputta...
Sariputta out there using Adobe like, "One day this will land on the interwebz."
:rofl:

woodsman
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Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:45 am

Re: Emptiness

Post by woodsman »

Pondera wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:34 am
.

“Emptiness” is a Mahayana strain of thought, IMO.
Yet undeniably true nonetheless.

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