What depend it on how good i suceed to follow the eightfold path?

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sunnat
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Re: What depend it on how good i suceed to follow the eightfold path?

Post by sunnat » Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:33 am

It takes time, patience. Let the doors open in your mind. Do kind things to people who don't deserve it.

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bodom
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Re: What depend it on how good i suceed to follow the eightfold path?

Post by bodom » Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:50 am

The Buddha tells us that the forerunner and precursor for the arising of the eightfold Path and it's fulfillment is good friends in the Dhamma. In another sutta he tells us friendship is the whole of the holy life.
Bhikkhus, this is the forerunner and precursor of the rising of the sun, that is, the dawn. So too, bhikkhus, for a bhikkhu this is the forerunner and precursor for the arising of the Noble Eightfold Path, that is, good friendship. When a bhikkhu has a good friend, it is to be expected that he will develop and cultivate this Noble Eightfold Path.

And how does a bhikkhu who has a good friend develop and cultivate the Noble Eightfold Path? Here, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu develops right view, which has as its final goal the removal of lust, the removal of hatred, the removal of delusion…. He develops right concentration, which has as its final goal the removal of lust, the removal of hatred, the removal of delusion. It is in this way, bhikkhus, that a bhikkhu who has a good friend develops and cultivates the Noble Eightfold Path.”
https://suttacentral.net/sn45.56/en/bodhi

:namaste:
The heart of the path is so simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice.

Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing.

Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this-just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle.

- Ajahn Chah

lostitude
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Re: What depend it on how good i suceed to follow the eightfold path?

Post by lostitude » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:24 pm

sunnat wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:13 am
Effort is very important.
But what is the condition for effort? why do I make efforts on one given day but not the next?
If effort is conditioned by motivation then the same question arises: what determines motivation? is it something I can actually control? why was I motivated yesterday but not today? is it akin to mood states that come and go unchecked?

Thanks.

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Re: What depend it on how good i suceed to follow the eightfold path?

Post by retrofuturist » Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:28 pm

Greetings Lostitude,

From Right View comes Right Intention/Motivation.

The suttas explain that Right View is the forerunner of the path.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

lostitude
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Re: What depend it on how good i suceed to follow the eightfold path?

Post by lostitude » Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:48 pm

retrofuturist wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:28 pm
Greetings Lostitude,

From Right View comes Right Intention/Motivation.

The suttas explain that Right View is the forerunner of the path.

Metta,
Paul. :)
But from what I hear, right view is not something anyone starts with, it is often slowly and gradually acquired through... effort and practice. So that sounds like a chicken or egg dilemma, yet the answer would be really helpful.

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Re: What depend it on how good i suceed to follow the eightfold path?

Post by binocular » Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:03 pm

lostitude wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:48 pm
But from what I hear, right view is not something anyone starts with, it is often slowly and gradually acquired through... effort and practice. So that sounds like a chicken or egg dilemma, yet the answer would be really helpful.
Search ATI by keyword "catch-22" and read the finds.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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Re: What depend it on how good i suceed to follow the eightfold path?

Post by retrofuturist » Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:58 pm

Greetings,
lostitude wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:48 pm
But from what I hear...

...So that sounds like a chicken or egg dilemma, yet the answer would be really helpful.
I suggest you focus more on what the suttas say than "what [you] hear", if you wish to solve this "dilemma".

All the best.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

lostitude
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Re: What depend it on how good i suceed to follow the eightfold path?

Post by lostitude » Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:13 pm

binocular wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:03 pm
lostitude wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:48 pm
But from what I hear, right view is not something anyone starts with, it is often slowly and gradually acquired through... effort and practice. So that sounds like a chicken or egg dilemma, yet the answer would be really helpful.
Search ATI by keyword "catch-22" and read the finds.
What's ATI?
retrofuturist wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:58 pm
Greetings,
lostitude wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:48 pm
But from what I hear...

...So that sounds like a chicken or egg dilemma, yet the answer would be really helpful.
I suggest you focus more on what the suttas say than "what [you] hear", if you wish to solve this "dilemma".
By what I hear I meant what monks say and what I read on here. I don't really see how the suttas can help me here. You say right view leads to right effort, but what is the point of right effort if not to lead to right view?
And what kind of right view can a beginner have that leads to right effort? If that question was so clear, we would all have that necessary right view and would all have right effort and the rest would follow naturally, right? what is it I'm missing?

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Re: What depend it on how good i suceed to follow the eightfold path?

Post by retrofuturist » Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:42 pm

Greetings Lostitude,
What's ATI?
Access To Insight
By what I hear I meant what monks say and what I read on here.
Which unless they are quoting suttas, is not the suttas.
I don't really see how the suttas can help me here.
Well that's rather unfortunate. Nonetheless...
You say right view leads to right effort, but what is the point of right effort if not to lead to right view?
You can read about this in MN 117. It explains about the various ways in which Right View is the forerunner, and about how mindfulness and effort can help to bring Right View to mind.

However, to understand the sources of Right View, or wisdom, if you prefer, see RobertK's extensive topic: The Causes For Wisdom
And what kind of right view can a beginner have that leads to right effort?
Right View with Effluents, again, as explained in MN 117.
If that question was so clear, we would all have that necessary right view...
The question is clear, but that's no guarantee that people will look in the right place to explore it...
... and would all have right effort and the rest would follow naturally, right?
Actually, that's precisely how it works.
AN 10.121 wrote:Bhikkhus, just as the dawn is the forerunner and first indication of the rising of the sun, so is right view the forerunner and first indication of wholesome states.

For one of right view, bhikkhus, right intention springs up. For one of right intention, right speech springs up. For one of right speech, right action springs up. For one of right action, right livelihood springs up. For one of right livelihood, right effort springs up. For one of right effort, right mindfulness springs up. For one of right mindfulness, right concentration springs up. For one of right concentration, right knowledge springs up. For one of right knowledge, right deliverance springs up.
what is it I'm missing?
My guess is that you've been misled about the cause of wisdom, most likely by people who wish to sell you a meditation practice... but that's just a guess, it's more important that you determine the real reason for yourself.

To assist in that process, I recommend you read the sutta accounts collected for you in The Arising Of The Dhamma-Eye and see what causes actually give rise to stream-entry... and think, what are these people doing, what are these people not doing?

All the best.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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Re: What depend it on how good i suceed to follow the eightfold path?

Post by sunnat » Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:11 am

When you are starting off on the path, keeping it simple is good.

Right effort, along with right mindfulness and right concentration, is the samadhi part of the noble eightfold path.

Practice with the intention to prevent bad conduct from arising. Prevent bad conduct which might arise from arising.
Practice with the intention that good conduct that hasn't arisen, will arise. Make effort to nurture and keep alive such good conduct that has arisen to ensure it stays and grows.

Making effort: without sloth, doubt, restlessness. Ardently. Continuously. This takes practice. When the mind, behaviour, wanders off the path bring it back again and again and again.

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Re: What depend it on how good i suceed to follow the eightfold path?

Post by retrofuturist » Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:35 am

Greetings Lostitude,
sunnat wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:11 am
When you are starting off on the path, keeping it simple is good.

Right effort, along with right mindfulness and right concentration, is the samadhi part of the noble eightfold path.

Practice with the intention to prevent bad conduct from arising. Prevent bad conduct which might arise from arising.
Practice with the intention that good conduct that hasn't arisen, will arise. Make effort to nurture and keep alive such good conduct that has arisen to ensure it stays and grows.

Making effort: without sloth, doubt, restlessness. Ardently. Continuously. This takes practice. When the mind, behaviour, wanders off the path bring it back again and again and again.
This is a good example of what happens if you listen to "people" and not "suttas". Nowhere in the suttas does it say to start at the end of the Noble Eightfold Path... it just doesn't.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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Re: What depend it on how good i suceed to follow the eightfold path?

Post by sunnat » Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:58 am

Please take heed. When you have views, pre-judice, it can be easy to not take the care needed. This can be seen as one of the unwholesome tendencies to guard against.

When you are starting off on the path doesn't mean start the path at the end.

With metta.

edit : spelling

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Re: What depend it on how good i suceed to follow the eightfold path?

Post by lostitude » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:06 am

Thank you retrofuturist for the links. About the last two posts before this one I'm waiting now, I'm not sure what happened, you seem to have mistaken sunnat for me, and I understood neither your response not his response to yours.

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Re: What depend it on how good i suceed to follow the eightfold path?

Post by retrofuturist » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:33 am

Greetings Lostitude,

To clarify, I was using it as an example of instructions not grounded in the suttas to show how well-meaning and Buddhist-sounding instructions not actually grounded in the suttas serve only to perpetuate avijja and moha (confusion)

Either way, I'm pleased the links addressed your interest.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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Re: What depend it on how good i suceed to follow the eightfold path?

Post by Nwad » Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:04 am

Hello :anjali:

Developement of 7 Factors of Awakening are the criteria in the success of N8P : Mindfulness (sati), Investigation of fenomena (dhamma vicaya), Energy (viriya), Joy (piti), Tranquility (passadhi), Concentration (samadhi), Equanimity (upekkha)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Fac ... _Awakening

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