difference between Lobha (greed) and Macchariya (Avarice)

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canadianbuddhist
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difference between Lobha (greed) and Macchariya (Avarice)

Post by canadianbuddhist » Sat Sep 01, 2018 7:12 pm

Hi,
Can somebody tell me the difference between the pali words lobha and macchariya? it seems that the English translations do have a difference, but I am interested to know the difference in pali?

Thanks

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Sam Vara
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Re: difference between Lobha (greed) and Macchariya (Avarice)

Post by Sam Vara » Sat Sep 01, 2018 7:25 pm

Macchariya is often translated as "stinginess", as in this example:
Mendicants, there are these five kinds of stinginess. What five? Stinginess with dwellings, families, material possessions, praise, and the teachings. These are the five kinds of stinginess. The most contemptible of these five kinds of stinginess is stinginess with the teachings
https://suttacentral.net/an5.254/en/sujato

The difference seems to be that Macchariya here points to an unwillingness to share or give what one considers to be one's own. That species of greed which is selfishness, possessiveness, or miserliness.

The PTS also gives it as "envy", though I can't remember any sutta examples of this.

SarathW
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Re: difference between Lobha (greed) and Macchariya (Avarice)

Post by SarathW » Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:55 am

To me, Lobha means greediness for something you do not have. Wishing for excess. For instance, having a house or a job to make a living is not the Lobha. Wishing for more than what you need is the Lobha.
Macchariya is not sharing what you have in excess or wishing that others do not have what you have.
For instance, some do not wish to share their knowledge even though they do not lose anything sharing that knowledge.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

santa100
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Re: difference between Lobha (greed) and Macchariya (Avarice)

Post by santa100 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:03 am

From Ven. Bodhi's Comprehensive Manual of Abhidhamma, lobha and macchariya are 2 of the 52 Cetasikas/Mental Factors, which is further divided into 14 Akusalas/Unwholesomes, which further sub-divided to lobha as belonging to the class of consciousness accompanied by greed; and macchariya as that associated with aversion. Below are their definition and explanations:
CPMA wrote:Greed, the first unwholesome root, covers all degrees of selfish desire, longing, attachment, and clinging. Its characteristic is grasping an object. Its function is sticking, as meat sticks to a hot pan. It is manifested as not giving up. Its proximate cause is seeing enjoyment in things that lead to bondage.

The characteristic of avarice (or stinginess) is concealing one's own success when it has been or can be obtained. Its function is not to bear sharing these with others. It is manifest as shrinking away (from sharing) and as meaness or sour feeling. Its proximate cause is one's own success.

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cappuccino
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Re: difference between Lobha (greed) and Macchariya (Avarice)

Post by cappuccino » Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:48 am

av·a·rice
noun
extreme greed for wealth or material gain.

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Volovsky
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Re: difference between Lobha (greed) and Macchariya (Avarice)

Post by Volovsky » Sun Sep 02, 2018 10:45 am

The main difference is that macchariya is rooted in hate (dosa), whereas lobha is in direct opposition to dosa. So, macchariya and lobha cannot arise at a the same mind moment.

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Re: difference between Lobha (greed) and Macchariya (Avarice)

Post by justindesilva » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:54 am

Sam Vara wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 7:25 pm
Macchariya is often translated as "stinginess", as in this example:
Mendicants, there are these five kinds of stinginess. What five? Stinginess with dwellings, families, material possessions, praise, and the teachings. These are the five kinds of stinginess. The most contemptible of these five kinds of stinginess is stinginess with the teachings
https://suttacentral.net/an5.254/en/sujato

The difference seems to be that Macchariya here points to an unwillingness to share or give what one considers to be one's own. That species of greed which is selfishness, possessiveness, or miserliness.

The PTS also gives it as "envy", though I can't remember any sutta examples of this.
I wish to elaborate on this answer by saying:
that both lobha and machchariya belong to asobhana citta (akusal or unwholesome citta) which arise in 52 cetasikas expressed in abidamma.
Both arise from Tanha. Lobha is also the desire to store material possession. Machchariya is the quality of mind in having possession and unwillingness to share what is possessed. Stinginess is detailed in a quote here of as with dwellings, families, material, praise and teachings. If I may add stingy people do not spend on their own health , and dresses and needed travelling ( of the immediate family) when is essential. What is seen bad with stingy people is not sharing books for knowledge and textual material even for others education and darma sharing.
The quality of lobha (greed) can be changed to alobha (non greed) only by sharing (dana) materially and with sharing knowledge , especially damma knowledge.

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