Hi all, of the three unwholesome roots - greed/aversion/delusion - I am still unsure of what is even meant by delusion in the buddhist sense. Is delusion the process of creating the "Self" image? Is delusion making ourselves neurotic? Is it ignorance - that we dont even know we are creating suffering? or is it just holding wrong beliefs and generally causing mischief?
Any help would be appreciated.
What is delusion?
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Re: What is delusion?
According to Theravada teaching it is not knowing Four Noble Truths.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Re: What is delusion?
Expecting impermanent things to remain permanent, thinking that stressful things are pleasurable eg. the chase for fame/fortune/good looks and believing that the body, thoughts, feelings, perceptions are ours.
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
Re: What is delusion?
Inability to differentiate between the essential and the unessential
Those who mistake the unessential to be essential and the essential to be unessential, dwelling in wrong thoughts, never arrive at the essential.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"
This was the last word of the Tathagata.
This was the last word of the Tathagata.
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Re: What is delusion?
This is from the Vipallasa Sutta:
"When those with discernment listen,
they regain their senses,
seeing the inconstant as inconstant,
the stressful as stressful,
what's not-self as not-self,
the unattractive as unattractive.
Undertaking right view,
they transcend all stress & suffering."
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
"When those with discernment listen,
they regain their senses,
seeing the inconstant as inconstant,
the stressful as stressful,
what's not-self as not-self,
the unattractive as unattractive.
Undertaking right view,
they transcend all stress & suffering."
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
Buddha save me from new-agers!
Re: What is delusion?
Ignorance, the three marks of existence, and vipassana:
“At the cognitive level, which is its most basic sphere of operation, ignorance infiltrates our perceptions, thoughts, and views, so that we come to misconstrue our experience overlaying it with multiple strata of delusions. The most important of these delusions are three: the delusion of seeing permanence in the impermanent, of seeing satisfactionin the unsatisfactory, and of seeing a self in the selfless. Thus we take ourselves and our world to be solid, stable, enduring entities, despite the ubiquitous reminders that everything is subject to change and detruction. We assume we have an innate right to pleasure and direct our efforts to increasing and intensifying our enjoyment with an anticipatory fervour undaunted by repeated encounters with pain, disappointment and frustration. And we perceive ourselves as self-contained egos, clinging to various ideas and images we form of ourselves as the irrefragable truth of our identity.
Wheras ignorance obscures the true nature of things, wisdom removes the veils of distortion, enabling us to see phenomena in their fundamental mode of being with the vivacity of direct perception. The training in wisdom centers on the development of insight (vipassana-bhavana), a deep and comprehensive seeing into the nature of exstence which fathoms the truth of our being in the only sphere where it is directly accessible to us, namely in our own experience.”—“The Noble Eightfold Path”, Bikkhu Bodhi.
“At the cognitive level, which is its most basic sphere of operation, ignorance infiltrates our perceptions, thoughts, and views, so that we come to misconstrue our experience overlaying it with multiple strata of delusions. The most important of these delusions are three: the delusion of seeing permanence in the impermanent, of seeing satisfactionin the unsatisfactory, and of seeing a self in the selfless. Thus we take ourselves and our world to be solid, stable, enduring entities, despite the ubiquitous reminders that everything is subject to change and detruction. We assume we have an innate right to pleasure and direct our efforts to increasing and intensifying our enjoyment with an anticipatory fervour undaunted by repeated encounters with pain, disappointment and frustration. And we perceive ourselves as self-contained egos, clinging to various ideas and images we form of ourselves as the irrefragable truth of our identity.
Wheras ignorance obscures the true nature of things, wisdom removes the veils of distortion, enabling us to see phenomena in their fundamental mode of being with the vivacity of direct perception. The training in wisdom centers on the development of insight (vipassana-bhavana), a deep and comprehensive seeing into the nature of exstence which fathoms the truth of our being in the only sphere where it is directly accessible to us, namely in our own experience.”—“The Noble Eightfold Path”, Bikkhu Bodhi.
Re: What is delusion?
If you take delusion in above context which means the household equanimity (Upekkha).greed/aversion/delusion
Basically, delusion means not knowing the reality.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Re: What is delusion?
English language has expressions like "getting hyped up", "don't believe the hype", etc. In my country we call that "getting into a movie". For example teenagers might get hyped up on being cool. Others might get hyped up in the ganger movie. A pimp might get hyped up on how "he is somebody", on how he "does not give a F about police" and stuff like that. His head is caught into the gangster movie. That's why one of the 40 rules of pimping is "don't believe the hype". He should stay focused on the money and not get hyped up like that. Normal people get hyped up into how collage makes them "be somebody", how their job makes them be "from the upper class" etc. and get hyped up like that, get into that movie.
Delusion is that thing that they have due to being hyped up/being into a movie. Besides getting hyped up, there is also delusion that appears due to normal attachments that don't necessarily require one to be into a movie. For example an alcoholic might claim alcohol is not causing him any problem, that it's not detrimental for him. A drug user might say the same. If he would not have attachment for alcohol or drugs, he would have a normal and objective opinion about that habit, his thinking would not be influenced by delusion.
Delusion is that thing that they have due to being hyped up/being into a movie. Besides getting hyped up, there is also delusion that appears due to normal attachments that don't necessarily require one to be into a movie. For example an alcoholic might claim alcohol is not causing him any problem, that it's not detrimental for him. A drug user might say the same. If he would not have attachment for alcohol or drugs, he would have a normal and objective opinion about that habit, his thinking would not be influenced by delusion.
Re: What is delusion?
Hi JW. Yes. Delusion is the process of creating the "Self" image. On a social level, delusion also includes selfishness & ingratitude.
Yes. Any type of confusion, fear, anxiety, etc, is a form of "delusion".
Yes. All of the above. "Ignorance" is an inherent/underlying lack of understanding and "delusion" is the manifestation of ignorance in relation to a sense or life experience.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.
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Re: What is delusion?
This talk "Delusion" given by by Ajahn Sumedho a few years ago might be helpful:jwalker wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:16 am Hi all, of the three unwholesome roots - greed/aversion/delusion - I am still unsure of what is even meant by delusion in the buddhist sense. Is delusion the process of creating the "Self" image? Is delusion making ourselves neurotic? Is it ignorance - that we dont even know we are creating suffering? or is it just holding wrong beliefs and generally causing mischief?
Any help would be appreciated.
https://www.amaravati.org/audio/delusion/