God in the pali cannon

A forum for beginners and members of other Buddhist traditions to ask questions about Theravāda (The Way of the Elders). Responses require moderator approval before they are visible in order to double-check alignment to Theravāda orthodoxy.
diamind
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:26 am

God in the pali cannon

Post by diamind »

Did buddha ever comment on God? Or the idea of a creator God?
User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 12977
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
Contact:

Re: God in the pali cannon

Post by cappuccino »

And the beings who re-arose there after him also think: This must be Brahmā, the Great Brahmā, the Vanquisher, the Unvanquished, the Universal Seer, the Wielder of Power, the Lord, the Maker and Creator, the Supreme Being, the Ordainer, the Almighty, the Father of all that are and are to be. And we have been created by him. What is the reason? Because we see that he was here first, and we appeared here after him.
Brahmajāla Sutta
Coaching
I specialize in Theravada Buddhism.
User avatar
Sherab
Posts: 239
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:53 am

Re: God in the pali cannon

Post by Sherab »

User avatar
Gwi II
Posts: 488
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:49 am
Location: Indonesia 🇮🇩
Contact:

Re: God in the pali cannon

Post by Gwi II »

diamind wrote: Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:27 pm Did buddha ever comment on God? Or the idea of a creator God?
The God is (1) exists or (2) does not exist,
(3) both exists and does not exist, (4) neither
exists nor does not exist, The Buddho doesnt
declare these
. Why? That's how to answer correctly!
Gwi: "There are only-two Sakaṽādins:
Theraṽādå&Ṽibhajjaṽādå, the rest are
nonsakaṽādins!"
Ontheway
Posts: 3066
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:35 pm

Re: God in the pali cannon

Post by Ontheway »

Gwi II wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:42 am
diamind wrote: Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:27 pm Did buddha ever comment on God? Or the idea of a creator God?
The God is (1) exists or (2) does not exist,
(3) both exists and does not exist, (4) neither
exists nor does not exist, The Buddho doesnt
declare these
. Why? That's how to answer correctly!
The Buddha did commented on the idea of having Creator as a wrong belief.

Please read Brahmajala sutta (Ekaccasassatavāda part).
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
User avatar
Gwi II
Posts: 488
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:49 am
Location: Indonesia 🇮🇩
Contact:

Re: God in the pali cannon

Post by Gwi II »

Ontheway wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:55 am
Gwi II wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:42 am
diamind wrote: Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:27 pm Did buddha ever comment on God? Or the idea of a creator God?
The God is (1) exists or (2) does not exist,
(3) both exists and does not exist, (4) neither
exists nor does not exist, The Buddho doesnt
declare these
. Why? That's how to answer correctly!
The Buddha did commented on the idea of having Creator as a wrong belief.

Please read Brahmajala sutta (Ekaccasassatavāda part).
The God is (1) exists or (2) does not exist,
(3) both exists and does not exist, (4) neither
exists nor does not exist, The Buddho doesnt
declare these. That's how to answer correctly!
Gwi: "There are only-two Sakaṽādins:
Theraṽādå&Ṽibhajjaṽādå, the rest are
nonsakaṽādins!"
Ontheway
Posts: 3066
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:35 pm

Re: God in the pali cannon

Post by Ontheway »

Gwi II wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 11:23 am
Ontheway wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:55 am
Gwi II wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:42 am

The God is (1) exists or (2) does not exist,
(3) both exists and does not exist, (4) neither
exists nor does not exist, The Buddho doesnt
declare these
. Why? That's how to answer correctly!
The Buddha did commented on the idea of having Creator as a wrong belief.

Please read Brahmajala sutta (Ekaccasassatavāda part).
The God is (1) exists or (2) does not exist,
(3) both exists and does not exist, (4) neither
exists nor does not exist, The Buddho doesnt
declare these. That's how to answer correctly!
It seems you try to slip this doubtful belief in.

No, the Buddha already openly declared as per scriptures such as Brahmajala sutta and Brahmanimantanika Sutta, that belief of Creator is wrong.

So, yep, the belief of Allah Subanahu wa'taala is not acceptable in Theravada teachings.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
User avatar
Gwi II
Posts: 488
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:49 am
Location: Indonesia 🇮🇩
Contact:

Re: God in the pali cannon

Post by Gwi II »

Ontheway wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 7:14 am
Gwi II wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 11:23 am
Ontheway wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:55 am

The Buddha did commented on the idea of having Creator as a wrong belief.

Please read Brahmajala sutta (Ekaccasassatavāda part).
The God is (1) exists or (2) does not exist,
(3) both exists and does not exist, (4) neither
exists nor does not exist, The Buddho doesnt
declare these. That's how to answer correctly!
It seems you try to slip this doubtful belief in.

No, the Buddha already openly declared as per scriptures such as Brahmajala sutta and Brahmanimantanika Sutta, that belief of Creator is wrong.

So, yep, the belief of Allah Subanahu wa'taala is not acceptable in Theravada teachings.
If you were asked, "God exists or
doesnt exist, what is your answer?"
Gwi: "There are only-two Sakaṽādins:
Theraṽādå&Ṽibhajjaṽādå, the rest are
nonsakaṽādins!"
BrokenBones
Posts: 1802
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:20 am

Re: God in the pali cannon

Post by BrokenBones »

Gwi II wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 11:23 am
Ontheway wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:55 am
Gwi II wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:42 am

The God is (1) exists or (2) does not exist,
(3) both exists and does not exist, (4) neither
exists nor does not exist, The Buddho doesnt
declare these
. Why? That's how to answer correctly!
The Buddha did commented on the idea of having Creator as a wrong belief.

Please read Brahmajala sutta (Ekaccasassatavāda part).
The God is (1) exists or (2) does not exist,
(3) both exists and does not exist, (4) neither
exists nor does not exist, The Buddho doesnt
declare these. That's how to answer correctly!
Please don't falsify the Buddha's teaching.

This was not said in reference to 'God'.

The Buddha declared there were many gods but absolutely refuted the idea of a GOD... no creator God or all powerful being.
User avatar
Gwi II
Posts: 488
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:49 am
Location: Indonesia 🇮🇩
Contact:

Re: God in the pali cannon

Post by Gwi II »

BrokenBones wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 9:17 am
Gwi II wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 11:23 am
Ontheway wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:55 am

The Buddha did commented on the idea of having Creator as a wrong belief.

Please read Brahmajala sutta (Ekaccasassatavāda part).
The God is (1) exists or (2) does not exist,
(3) both exists and does not exist, (4) neither
exists nor does not exist, The Buddho doesnt
declare these. That's how to answer correctly!
Please don't falsify the Buddha's teaching.

This was not said in reference to 'God'.

The Buddha declared there were many gods but absolutely refuted the idea of a GOD... no creator God or all powerful being.
"No creator God or all powerful being," u said.
(I think same answer with Mr.Ontheway).

So, can you show me that statement in buddhist scriptures?
That (The Buddho) said, "No creator God or all powerful being."

Please don't falsify the Buddha's teaching!
Gwi: "There are only-two Sakaṽādins:
Theraṽādå&Ṽibhajjaṽādå, the rest are
nonsakaṽādins!"
User avatar
Sam Vara
Site Admin
Posts: 13579
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Portsmouth, U.K.

Re: God in the pali cannon

Post by Sam Vara »

Gwi II wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 9:24 am
BrokenBones wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 9:17 am
Gwi II wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 11:23 am

The God is (1) exists or (2) does not exist,
(3) both exists and does not exist, (4) neither
exists nor does not exist, The Buddho doesnt
declare these. That's how to answer correctly!
Please don't falsify the Buddha's teaching.

This was not said in reference to 'God'.

The Buddha declared there were many gods but absolutely refuted the idea of a GOD... no creator God or all powerful being.
"No creator God or all powerful being," u said.
(I think same answer with Mr.Ontheway).

So, can you show me that statement in buddhist scriptures?
That (The Buddho) said, "No creator God or all powerful being."

Please don't falsify the Buddha's teaching!
I think this comes so close to it as to make no practical difference:
‘The world has no shelter and no savior.’
‘Atāṇo loko anabhissaro’ti
from MN 82. "Abhissara" literally means "overlord".
User avatar
Gwi II
Posts: 488
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:49 am
Location: Indonesia 🇮🇩
Contact:

Re: God in the pali cannon

Post by Gwi II »

Sam Vara wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 9:45 am
Gwi II wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 9:24 am
BrokenBones wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 9:17 am

Please don't falsify the Buddha's teaching.

This was not said in reference to 'God'.

The Buddha declared there were many gods but absolutely refuted the idea of a GOD... no creator God or all powerful being.
"No creator God or all powerful being," u said.
(I think same answer with Mr.Ontheway).

So, can you show me that statement in buddhist scriptures?
That (The Buddho) said, "No creator God or all powerful being."

Please don't falsify the Buddha's teaching!
I think this comes so close to it as to make no practical difference:
‘The world has no shelter and no savior.’
‘Atāṇo loko anabhissaro’ti
from MN 82. "Abhissara" literally means "overlord".
Raṭṭhapāla-suttaṃ?? Can you
tag a more complete sentence?

And can i get Suttaṃ like this:
"Bhikkhave, there is no god!" Or spoken to other
people/creatures? Or any other sentences?
Gwi: "There are only-two Sakaṽādins:
Theraṽādå&Ṽibhajjaṽādå, the rest are
nonsakaṽādins!"
User avatar
Sam Vara
Site Admin
Posts: 13579
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Portsmouth, U.K.

Re: God in the pali cannon

Post by Sam Vara »

Gwi II wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 10:12 am
Sam Vara wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 9:45 am
Gwi II wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 9:24 am

"No creator God or all powerful being," u said.
(I think same answer with Mr.Ontheway).

So, can you show me that statement in buddhist scriptures?
That (The Buddho) said, "No creator God or all powerful being."

Please don't falsify the Buddha's teaching!
I think this comes so close to it as to make no practical difference:
‘The world has no shelter and no savior.’
‘Atāṇo loko anabhissaro’ti
from MN 82. "Abhissara" literally means "overlord".
Raṭṭhapāla-suttaṃ?? Can you
tag a more complete sentence?
No, that sentence is complete as it is. Short, but perfectly complete and equally apposite.
And can i get Suttaṃ like this:
"Bhikkhave, there is no god!" Or spoken to other
people/creatures? Or any other sentences?
Well, it means that there is no God. For other sentences, you have Ontheway's recommendation above: the Ekaccasassatavāda of DN 1.
User avatar
Gwi II
Posts: 488
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:49 am
Location: Indonesia 🇮🇩
Contact:

Re: God in the pali cannon

Post by Gwi II »

Sam Vara wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 10:37 am
Gwi II wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 10:12 am
Sam Vara wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 9:45 am

I think this comes so close to it as to make no practical difference:



from MN 82. "Abhissara" literally means "overlord".
Raṭṭhapāla-suttaṃ?? Can you
tag a more complete sentence?
No, that sentence is complete as it is. Short, but perfectly complete and equally apposite.
And can i get Suttaṃ like this:
"Bhikkhave, there is no god!" Or spoken to other
people/creatures? Or any other sentences?
Well, it means that there is no God. For other sentences, you have Ontheway's recommendation above: the Ekaccasassatavāda of DN 1.
The sentence is not clear,
about "there is no god".
I mean "wrong address".

However, I still ask for a statement from
The Buddho that says (with certainty),
Not a personal opinion.
Gwi: "There are only-two Sakaṽādins:
Theraṽādå&Ṽibhajjaṽādå, the rest are
nonsakaṽādins!"
User avatar
Gwi II
Posts: 488
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:49 am
Location: Indonesia 🇮🇩
Contact:

Re: God in the pali cannon

Post by Gwi II »

Sam Vara wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 9:45 am
Gwi II wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 9:24 am
BrokenBones wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 9:17 am

Please don't falsify the Buddha's teaching.

This was not said in reference to 'God'.

The Buddha declared there were many gods but absolutely refuted the idea of a GOD... no creator God or all powerful being.
"No creator God or all powerful being," u said.
(I think same answer with Mr.Ontheway).

So, can you show me that statement in buddhist scriptures?
That (The Buddho) said, "No creator God or all powerful being."

Please don't falsify the Buddha's teaching!
I think this comes so close to it as to make no practical difference:
‘The world has no shelter and no savior.’
‘Atāṇo loko anabhissaro’ti
from MN 82. "Abhissara" literally means "overlord".
(Raṭṭhapālo Thero:)
“Great king, the Blessed One who knows and sees, the perfected one, the fully awakened Buddha has taught these four summaries of the teaching for recitation. It was after knowing and seeing and hearing these that I went forth from the lay life to homelessness.

What four?

‘The world is unstable and swept away.’ This is the first summary.

‘The world has no shelter and no savior.’ This is the second summary ....


(King Koravyo:)
Yet you said: ‘The world has no shelter and no savior.’ How should I see the meaning of this statement?”

(Raṭṭhapālo Thero:)
“What do you think, great king? Do you have any chronic ailments?”

(King Koravyo:)
“Yes, I do. Sometimes my friends and colleagues, relatives and family members surround me, thinking: ‘Now the king will die! Now the king will die!’”

(Raṭṭhapālo Thero:)
“What do you think, great king? Can you get your friends and colleagues, relatives and family members to help: ‘Please, my dear friends and colleagues, relatives and family members, all of you here share my pain so that I may feel less pain.’ Or must you alone feel that pain?”

(King Koravyo:)
“I can’t get my friends to share my pain. Rather, I alone must feel it.”

(Raṭṭhapālo Thero:)
“This is what The Buddha was referring to when he said: ‘The world has no shelter and no savior.’”

Clear OOT, so sorry.
Gwi: "There are only-two Sakaṽādins:
Theraṽādå&Ṽibhajjaṽādå, the rest are
nonsakaṽādins!"
Post Reply