Translations and translators
Translations and translators
What are the best translations of the pali cannon? Are there translators to avoid?
Re: Translations and translators
Hi diamind,
We are blessed with having modern translation of most of the Suttas, and the Vinaya freely available at https://suttacentral.net/ (a variety of translators, but the first four Nikayas are consistently translated by Bhikkhu Sujato, and for his translations you can set it up to see the Pali and English sentence by sentence, which can be helpful as the Pali also gives access to the on-line dictionary. There are a large number of translations by Thanissaro Bhikkhu at https://www.dhammatalks.org/ . https://accesstoinsight.org/ has his older translations, and also some translations by other authors.
While there will always be quibbles about translations, most of these translations are fine, unless you are trying to sort out certain picky details. If you are unsure about something, you can always compare translations between the different versions on Sutta Central and the other sites.
If you want translations with detailed footnotes and cross references, Bhikkhu Bodhi's are excellent, but they are not free. There are quite a few of his translation on Sutta Central, but without the footnotes.
Mike
We are blessed with having modern translation of most of the Suttas, and the Vinaya freely available at https://suttacentral.net/ (a variety of translators, but the first four Nikayas are consistently translated by Bhikkhu Sujato, and for his translations you can set it up to see the Pali and English sentence by sentence, which can be helpful as the Pali also gives access to the on-line dictionary. There are a large number of translations by Thanissaro Bhikkhu at https://www.dhammatalks.org/ . https://accesstoinsight.org/ has his older translations, and also some translations by other authors.
While there will always be quibbles about translations, most of these translations are fine, unless you are trying to sort out certain picky details. If you are unsure about something, you can always compare translations between the different versions on Sutta Central and the other sites.
If you want translations with detailed footnotes and cross references, Bhikkhu Bodhi's are excellent, but they are not free. There are quite a few of his translation on Sutta Central, but without the footnotes.
Mike
Re: Translations and translators
You may find this very brief article helpful... It is a simple overview of the trustworthy translators of major works.
https://readingfaithfully.org/overview- ... criptures/
https://readingfaithfully.org/overview- ... criptures/
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Re: Translations and translators
Thanks for the reply. So is the whole cannon translated? I want to collect them all together and start chanting them. I think I remember someone posting a chekc list of the entire cannon, do you know anything about that? thanks againmikenz66 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:30 am Hi diamind,
We are blessed with having modern translation of most of the Suttas, and the Vinaya freely available at https://suttacentral.net/ (a variety of translators, but the first four Nikayas are consistently translated by Bhikkhu Sujato, and for his translations you can set it up to see the Pali and English sentence by sentence, which can be helpful as the Pali also gives access to the on-line dictionary. There are a large number of translations by Thanissaro Bhikkhu at https://www.dhammatalks.org/ . https://accesstoinsight.org/ has his older translations, and also some translations by other authors.
While there will always be quibbles about translations, most of these translations are fine, unless you are trying to sort out certain picky details. If you are unsure about something, you can always compare translations between the different versions on Sutta Central and the other sites.
If you want translations with detailed footnotes and cross references, Bhikkhu Bodhi's are excellent, but they are not free. There are quite a few of his translation on Sutta Central, but without the footnotes.
Mike
Re: Translations and translators
Imo, Bhikkhu Bodhi has by far the best translations (although I don't resonate with 100% of his translations).
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
Re: Translations and translators
There are a variety of resources on ReadingFaithfully.org. For example
Building a Sutta Library is a brief "bibliography" to guide in collecting a good set of the complete canon up to the Jatakas:
https://readingfaithfully.org/buildingasuttalibrary/
To track what you have read, there is the Life List:
https://readingfaithfully.org/?s=life+list
And general checklists for the MN, SN, and AN:
https://readingfaithfully.org/sutta-che ... ng-suttas/
Is that what you were after?
| One sutta per day to your inbox | ReadingFaithfully.org Support for reading the Suttas | Citation lookup helper | Instant sutta name lookup | Instant PED lookup | Instant DPPN lookup |
Re: Translations and translators
Thanks for the links... Im not happy about this " gender-neutral" language, why is Sujato boasting about that? If he is changing the sutta to suit his own needs then what else is being changed? hmmmmikenz66 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:30 am Hi diamind,
We are blessed with having modern translation of most of the Suttas, and the Vinaya freely available at https://suttacentral.net/ (a variety of translators, but the first four Nikayas are consistently translated by Bhikkhu Sujato, and for his translations you can set it up to see the Pali and English sentence by sentence, which can be helpful as the Pali also gives access to the on-line dictionary. There are a large number of translations by Thanissaro Bhikkhu at https://www.dhammatalks.org/ . https://accesstoinsight.org/ has his older translations, and also some translations by other authors.
While there will always be quibbles about translations, most of these translations are fine, unless you are trying to sort out certain picky details. If you are unsure about something, you can always compare translations between the different versions on Sutta Central and the other sites.
If you want translations with detailed footnotes and cross references, Bhikkhu Bodhi's are excellent, but they are not free. There are quite a few of his translation on Sutta Central, but without the footnotes.
Mike
Re: Translations and translators
Gender of nouns is a slightly tricky thing. If I recall correctly, there are suttas that are clearly spoken to not only bhikkhus where the audience is addressed as "bhikkhus". The commentary to the Satipatthana Sutta comments that it was addressed to not only bhikkhus, but also bhikkhuni's and lay followers:
Ekayano ayam bhikkhave maggo = "This is the only way, O bhikkhus." Why did the Blessed One teach this Discourse? Because of the ability of the people of the Kurus to take in deep doctrine.
The inhabitants of the Kuru country — bhikkhus, bhikkhunis, upasakas, upasikas — by reason of their country being blessed with a perfect climate, and through their enjoyment of other comfortable conditions, were always healthy in body and in mind. ...
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... wayof.html
Mike
Re: Translations and translators
Here is some reasoning about the term:
Mike
Sujato wrote:Yes, it’s a bit weird. Anandajoti and Analayo have recently argued, I think correctly, that the term “bhikkhus” is used in the suttas, as well as referring specifically to male monastics, to refer to monastics in general, including bhikkhunis (just as “men” is used in English). So avoidng unnecessary gender issues is a good thing. On the other hand, as you say, “monastic” is not standard spoken English, although we use it quite a bit these days. (“We” meaning those of us in monastic communities who care about not being sexist). One could argue that “monk” can serve as a non-gendered term (like, say, “actor”), since in Buddhist countries they are quite happy to speak of “female monks”. As an alternative, we could always use “Hesychasts 5”Peter_Durham wrote: Monastics isn’t a word I have come across very often, why not “monks” or Bhikkus?
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/dr ... kka/439/24
Mike
Re: Translations and translators
I have read quite a bit of his translations. His use of gener neutral terms is only when the pali could be reasonably interpreted to be such. When the text is talking about men he uses male pronouns, etc. His usage is in line with current trends that will likely be considered standard in a decade or two. In some ways this is merely future-proofing them.
It's hard to accuse him of changing things when the Pali is presented allong with the English line-by-line. If you have issues with anything he has translated you can bring it up on SuttaCentral for a technical discussion about the merits.
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Re: Translations and translators
This English-Pali capacity is amazing. Even if one's Pali is rudimentary, the on-line dictionary lookup gives a sense of the sentence construction. In many cases, this makes it obvious that translation differences are simply choices in how to render the sentence into readable English (which often requires adding extra words, due to the way English works) and shouldn't be taken too seriously.
Mike